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Thread: How are things in Europe, really?

  1. #1
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    How are things in Europe, really?

    We hear about the doom and gloom in and out of the Eurozone. Spain, Italy, and Greece are constant sources of worry. Every issue of The Economist comes with very cautious outlooks, warning of British Eurosceptics and a precarious French position, politics threatening the ability of the EU to do much of anything, the pitfalls of focusing on austerity vs. growth, and wary German voters. And obviously it varies from an aloof Norwegian strength to steely German resolve, to Spain's teetering. But are things over there really as bad as they seem? Or is it mostly life as normal with a touch of extra anxiety?
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  2. #2
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    Here it's bad. And in my opinion it will either get worse, or if it stays the same it will stay like that for a very long time. I personally think that my generation won't ever see again the level of (virtual) wealth and consumerism the previous generation saw, especially in the late 90's and early 00's. And I'm one of the "lucky" ones, I have a job.

    Europe has very complex set of problems and issues that would make for a very long and boring post, but here are some points to consider:

    - One currency but several different economic policies
    - Difference between countries in terms of culture, structure and politics
    - Prevalence of Germany, which sets the tone economically and whose economic policies may be doing more harm than good in some cases
    - High level of debt in many countries

    And then in Spain there some more added problems, like corruption, destruction of industries in favour of turism and construction in the "good times", living well above one's possibilities by a large part of the population, state debt problems, etc.

    So yes, things are not looking good.
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  3. #3
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    Hmm...yes...one currency, no common Euro policy...shoulda mentioned that too.
    Last edited by jcp123; 03-17-2013 at 01:51 PM.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

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    Outside of the bailout-countries it is not so bad for those that are nearly bankrupt (Italy, Spain). There are pretty much no demos or riots, but in terms of available income for expenses it has been much reduced. Car sales are tumbling and house prices are also going down.

    Then in our particular case we have the 26% unemployement rate, which doesn't help. This would have destroyed any other cvilised country, but in our case many parents (or even grand parents in some cases) support their unemployed relatives, so it rather mitigates the impact.

    There's also the problem of raised taxes which is also reduces the available income, and the austerity imposed by Germany to comply with the deficit objectives which means that economy (and GDP, etc) is further reduced.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  5. #5
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    Spain is doing quite badly. I spoke to someone that is an exchange student from Spain on campus. She tells me the official unemployment figure is 25% or so, but in actuality it's quite a bit higher than that. On a bit of a side note, she's quite lovely.

    Detroit is about as bad as it gets in the USA, and their unemployment is around 12% or so.

    Greece is doing quite poorly as well. From what I read the doctors there are doing their job based off of donated goods and complex treatments like cancer are done only when things are available.

    Some doctors are even choosing to leave Greece because they didn't decide to go through medical school and into debt to deal with the bankrupt country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    Spain is doing quite badly. I spoke to someone that is an exchange student from Spain on campus. She tells me the official unemployment figure is 25% or so, but in actuality it's quite a bit higher than that. On a bit of a side note, she's quite lovely.
    On the other hand many people are working without a contract, so the actual figure could be lower. Who knows...
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  7. #7
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    Spanish girls ain't bad. If it keeps up over there, they could join the Russians and Chinese as dominating the mail order bride business
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

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    Let's calm down with the humor a little bit about this subject bc i always feel like Americans are those nosey neighbors that ask personal questions pretending to be friendly and then laugh about it and gossip with their friends.

    I didn't realize the economy was in that bad of shape over there but at least there's peace right? At the end of the day, if there's no threat of war, then there's something to be salvaged

  9. #9
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    I only ask because I read all kinds of stuff to do with hard numbers, but nothing that really mentions what it's like actually living there, what it feels like on the street and how it's affecting the psyche of folks there.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  10. #10
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    Until they joined the Euro zone countries like Greece would have just defaulted (like they have 6 million times in the last 2000 years), The Drachma would have been killed in the ForEx markets, and then the richer European countries would go there for cheap holidays and help stimulate their economy back in to shape.

    With the Euro they can't default so other broke countries have had to write down what was owed to them placing them in a worse financial position themselves.

    A huge problem they have is that they have an appallingly low tax collection rate, so they try and raise taxes - which with the Euro - chases the money outside their , already poor, ability to collect.

    The Cyprus situation is likely to create a huge bank run on any bank in an indebted country. Who would be silly enough to let their money get stolen so fast? I'd strongly recommend that EVERYONE have some of their wealth in gold and silver bouillon as this is much harder for the government to swipe than a few digits of your bank account.

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  11. #11
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    It is VERY bad here in the UK bevause we have a government who are plainly failing on all fronts but are determined to "show resolve" and continue to protect the rich and bank assets and destroy the NHS and the welfare benefits system.

    Ironic, that just as the USA seems to have a range of politicians who are finally understanding the difference between "communism" and social care that we end up with right wing idealists who have signed up to Unum/Atos theories on control of the ill and out of work for profit. So far every program devised has failed and cost significantly more than it promised to "save" and jobs are disappearing, money is disappearing from circulation and thus hastening the downward spiral with companies unable to get loans to upgrade their businesses because the banks who were given 10s of billions are unwilling to give 10 thousand to small businesses.

    The UK is on the verge of riots and unrest on a par with the poll tax.
    But the coalition government continues to follow purist conservative policies and drop every Liberal-Democrat policy.

    The chancellor ( UK politician in charge of the budget ) goes on TV and demonstrates he doesn't understand the difference between deficit and debt !!!

    BUT, because the press and the London financial centre permits it , the press and focus is on the "waste" of a few million on how many empty bedrooms their might be in homes assisted by government rent support. Demonising those worst off to take the focus away from those who continue to spirit money to off shore accounts and avoid paying tax.

    Going to hell in a hand basket and making the chances of a Scottish Independence movement succeeding in the breakup of the UK higher each day !!!


    oh and Britain's not in the Euro but still thinks it should have influence. ONLY one country stood against the plan to limit banker bonuses - a proposal even the Swiss supported. Yep, the UK !

    We have people committing suicide because they are ill but forced to work to receive benefit. We have people announced "fit to work" by the Unum/Atos company who die a week later from their ongoing illness and symptoms. Some areas 40% of children are now officially existing BELOW the poverty line and families are making choices to either feed them or heat them. NOT funny in a country this cold !!! But no headlines ... the papers ( and gov ) shine a light on one family of 18 who's single mother is doing well on benefits by virtue of (ab)using the system. It is classic steps Germany undertook in the 20s and 30s Manipulate the media, create "demons" within groups in society and through that control !

    BUT the headlines purport that things are not too bad in the UK and for the top 5% that is true. Financiers are still giving themselves 20% pay rises, multi million pound bonuses while in the case of RBS the bank is 80% gov owned and financed and is LOSING 10s of billions per year !! But the bonuses get paid and that feeds the property boon in south east England protecting their >£1M houses. While someone living on less than £100 per month is asked to pay £14 if they have a bedroom in their rented property they are not using as a bedroom.
    Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 03-18-2013 at 06:24 PM.
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  12. #12
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    2014 Peter, 2014.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Ironic, that just as the USA seems to have a range of politicians who are finally understanding the difference between "communism" and social care that we end up with right wing idealists who have signed up to Unum/Atos theories on control of the ill and out of work for profit.
    The US is full of right wing politicians whose idea of capitalism stems from a book written in 1776. People are only valuable to society if they contribute money into the system... quite a sickening thought process; especially for some of our elected leaders.

    Over here in the States, we may have a democrat in the White House and a democrat controlled senate... but the House of Reps is controlled by a bunch of fascists.

    Don't be so naive to think that US politicians (or the public) are beginning to understand the difference between communism and social care. The American thought process is that social care equals "evil" socialism... thus socialism automatically leads to communism and the USA will become USSA. Mind-boggling...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    While someone living on less than £100 per month is asked to pay £14 if they have a bedroom in their rented property they are not using as a bedroom.
    Wait wait wait...what? You have to pay a penalty if you have a bedroom not being used as a bedroom?
    A woman goes to the doctor to figure out why she is having breathing problems...The doctor tells her she is overweight. She says she wants a second opinion...the doctor says, "your ugly".

  15. #15
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    OH yes, rooster, the latest "great saviour" for the British nation is to penalise anyone who is receiving state support if they have a bedroom in their house that is not being "used". The thing has already had 2 changes before it becomes law when the complaints started .... that parents of anyone serving in the forces overseas would have to pay the tax while their sons/daughter were overseas and foster parents would have to pay the tax any time they were between child placements !! Latest patch to the idea being mooted now is that SOME parents with children one or more of which is disabled would have some for of dispensation for a bedroom for the disabled child. BUT it's already pointed out that it will affect people who need occasional overnight carers and elderly couples who cannot for medical reason share a bed will still be penalised.
    It is a travesty. All being introduced by a politician who has a mansion with 14 bedrooms and a state-paid for house in London -- which in the past he was illegally mortgaging !!

    It wont be long till the right wing in Britain will start swinging from lampposts if they carry on
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

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