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Thread: When did it all die?

  1. #91
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    Interesting. I know you're probably quite busy now that the summer racing season is starting, but could you try and nab a few under-the-skin pictures of hillclimb cars for me when you're at events? My only sources of information currently are YouTube and Wikipedia, and the latter has next-to nothing.

  2. #92
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    No probs. Anything in particular ?
    Can easily give you anything off the OMS when we're working on it and at events I'm killing time for an hour between runs so can get pics of Radicals, Force, OMS, GWR, Ralt, Gould, Pilbeam etc as well as myriad of Caterham/Westfields and even a few custom one-offs
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  3. #93
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    Yes please Matra, to anything you'd like to share.

    Anyone with knowledge of the current state of the art as expressed by FSAE to compare notes with? Love that so much tech at a grass-roots level is of this caliber. It's encouraging.
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    No probs. Anything in particular ?
    Can easily give you anything off the OMS when we're working on it and at events I'm killing time for an hour between runs so can get pics of Radicals, Force, OMS, GWR, Ralt, Gould, Pilbeam etc as well as myriad of Caterham/Westfields and even a few custom one-offs
    Any oddball/ingenious engine or aero pieces, or anything else you find that is worth photographing. I trust your eye on these sort of things. Am looking forward to it!

  5. #95
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    DAMN, spotted some odd shark fin shaped c/f elements along the joint of pod to engine cover as it dipped at rear of engine on the Ralt. Didn't take pics and the driver wasn't ahving a good day so didn't ask Will be more rigourous from now
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
    Yes please Matra, to anything you'd like to share.

    Anyone with knowledge of the current state of the art as expressed by FSAE to compare notes with? Love that so much tech at a grass-roots level is of this caliber. It's encouraging.
    We/I should start designing our 2012 Formula SAE car any time soon.
    We actually should have started a month or two ago, but this is Italy...

    I'm pretty curious to compare them, as we are willing to move to a carbon fiber tub this year, if the budget allows it that is.
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
    Yes please Matra, to anything you'd like to share.

    Anyone with knowledge of the current state of the art as expressed by FSAE to compare notes with? Love that so much tech at a grass-roots level is of this caliber. It's encouraging.

    FSAE is next weekend(11-14 of May), I should be there at least one day if not 2....I'll snap some pics....

    Hill climb will use a lot more aero and tires than FSAE car ever will, though as far as chassis design goes I think FSAE cars might be more "optimized", at least on paper.....Evolution of FSAE is just faster since you are building a new car every year....

    The design consideration will be quite different though, with FSAE car being cone dodger first and foremost....
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca

  8. #98
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    Motors TV yesterday had a fantastic club race live from Oulton Park, with all sorts of stuff, Radicals, Nemesis,Juno, Caterhams, even a Z3 coupe and a civic RType...(which was unbelievably slow compated to a Radical...)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #99
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    re the hillclimb "optimised" it's a moot point
    What surfaces are the FASE expected on ?

    From talking to GWR on the design of the Raptor it used knowledge from 8+ years of presvious designs then spent a year just on a computer modelling and FEA then a year in shakedown/redesign ( though not the tub suspension pickup points -- too expensive )

    However, they aren't made for rough roads for sure. Last weekends event at one of Scotlands oldest race tracks ( now disused ) had a problem of the surface layer breaking up as the day went on. I lifted a fist sized chunk of tarmac on a flat out right hander - thankfully no major damage. BUT two of the singfle seaters retired with broken wishboes ..... weight optimised just 1gram too far perhaps

    Hilclimb aero is massive though. Traction is the main need and esp on the fast corners. On the fastest hills seldom reach 130 so gearing and power is moved to a different place for racea cars and especially HUGE wings fitted robbing massive power at speed but equally allowing cornering standard F1 could not achieve
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  10. #100
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    FSAE Surface requirement is parking lot.....paved....

    The "actual" requirement differs from year to year. In my main years(2006-2007) the competition was held on an automotive proving ground's asphalt lake, so it was flat and smooth. It was on more broken pavement lot the previous decade in a football stadium lot and was held on the back stretch of an oval since(mix of concrete and pavement). The UK competition was held at Bruntingthrope and was a mix of concrete, runway pavement and go kart track pavement, then when it was moved to Silverstone and run mostly on the Brookland Luffield part of the track. I think in Germany it was held on transporter parking area of Hockenheim(never been myself), and supposedly it is pretty broken up and bumpy.

    Speed varies as well, fastest probably was the 2006-2007 years on the Ford Proving ground as the wide-open surface allows for much faster track(aero cars dominated the auto X in those years, but the organizer subsequently make the endurance track tighter and balance was restored, different layout are typically used for the 2 events). UK tracks are usually very tight(slaloms connected with chicanes the whole lap), and the current US track is somewhere in between, if not lacking a bit creativity due to space constraint.

    Mind you typical Solo 2 AutoX in US is kept below 55mph(US national speed limit), average speed around a lap in FSAE is usually well below that, though cars can hit 60-70 mph on sections of the track, if the gearing allows....(our car probably tops out below 65mph in 4th, we used to remove the 5th and 6th in the CBR600F4i tranny).

    Weight of the lightest car in FSAE have gone down significantly(no Min-weight in FSAE)....especially due to the advent of single cylinder car(popular powertrain is YZF450 dirt bike motor, popular 4 banger is still the CBR Honda). I think in the last couple of years the lightest single cylinder car(running on 10" diameter carbon fiber wheels) weighs ~260 lb range with no driver. In 2007 that was probably closer to 370-380 lb. Lightest 4 cylinder car nowadays is probably just under 350lb, compare to before maybe 390lb.

    Cost for the project probably have gone up significantly.....the cars were supposed to cost under $25k if sold to public, but creative costing in the cost report have probably masked the real value of some of these cars...mind you, since a huge portion of the competition is dynamic events and driver qualities are still hugely varied, a so-so cheap car with a team of hot shoe(or at least half decent drivers) will still do very well against big budget cars....
    Last edited by RacingManiac; 05-03-2011 at 06:48 AM.
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca

  11. #101
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    Olde Mulsanne Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by W.R. View Post
    It may not need it, but I'm sure as hell it's not the same circuit without it.
    AMEN!: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4NeahQkAM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4NeahQkAM[/ame]

  12. #102
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    ^^^ im interested to know what game that is?

  13. #103
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    Looks like Grid, possibly the second chapter (if it ever existed).
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  14. #104
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    I think never

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