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Thread: Front wheel drive 1-series beginning of downfall for BMW?

  1. #16
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    If Mercedes-Benz can get away with the preposterous A-Class and still be a romping success, it is clear that people clearly do not care about which wheels are driven. Or handling. Or ride comfort.

    For that matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    No, they do care, or else Acura wouldn't be in such a rut right now.
    The problem isn't their front-wheel-driveness.

    The problem is that it is not the right badge.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  2. #17
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    Lexus caught on in NA. Acura never really gained traction. They used to do sportscars and somewhat oddball and beautiful things like the Legend and Vigor. Now they are just there. Lexus is and was boring but widely embraces. Maybe the excellent launch of the LS is the reason?

  3. #18
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    I think that Lexus was indeed a much thorough programme than Acura has ever been. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't Acuras always been slightly poshed-up Hondas from other parts of the world?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    If Mercedes-Benz can get away with the preposterous A-Class and still be a romping success, it is clear that people clearly do not care about which wheels are driven. Or handling. Or ride comfort.

    For that matter.

    The problem isn't their front-wheel-driveness.

    The problem is that it is not the right badge.
    I don't think FWD and luxury every paired up right. Sure Audi has some FWD cars in Europe, but that's not the norm in North America. When Acura used to make the Integra, it was pretty cheap and well equipped and drove quite nicely. I'm sure the new ones still handle quite well, but they're not cheap anymore.

    And as Kitdy said, Lexus and Infiniti are doing quite fine. It's sad that Acura was the first luxury car brand to be introduced, but there really is nothing great in the range except for the TSX and the TL.

  5. #20
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    Well, in many aspects there are quite a lot of similarities between Audi and Acura. Back in the day, when they were trying to establish themselves they made high quality cars that while they were more expensive than their regular counterparts they weren't prohibitively expensive. Nowadays they are much more expensive, but they don't seem (in most cases) to offer much more than they did back when they were starting.

    The crucial difference is that in all those years Audi succeeded in building an image, while Acura apparently hasn't.

    Oh and by the way, I don't think four wheel drive cars make up more than 50% of Audi's sales and in Europe I'd be surprised if they actually were more than 30% of total sales. Nevertheless, Acura has plenty of four wheel drive cars on sale too, hasn't it?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Well, in many aspects there are quite a lot of similarities between Audi and Acura. Back in the day, when they were trying to establish themselves they made high quality cars that while they were more expensive than their regular counterparts they weren't prohibitively expensive. Nowadays they are much more expensive, but they don't seem (in most cases) to offer much more than they did back when they were starting.

    The crucial difference is that in all those years Audi succeeded in building an image, while Acura apparently hasn't.

    Oh and by the way, I don't think four wheel drive cars make up more than 50% of Audi's sales and in Europe I'd be surprised if they actually were more than 30% of total sales. Nevertheless, Acura has plenty of four wheel drive cars on sale too, hasn't it?
    I'm not too well versed on Audis- I thought they were mostly higher end stuff, but I do remember their earlier cars had cloth seats. I wouldn't be surprised that Audi doesn't sell too many 4WD cars in Europe at least.

    Acura's too worried about jamming their new beak design language down our throats. Take the RLX for instance- it's not an ugly car by all means, but it starts at $48,000 USD. A BMW 5 series starts at that price too. The RLX tops out at $61,000, and currently, the RLX isn't available in 4WD. However, when the hybrid model hits it should have electric motors powering the rear wheels.

    The TL I believe has four wheel drive, but again, I think only on the more expensive trim, which starts at $39k. Honestly, I'm not sure what the RLX is competing against- it's probably not much larger than a TL. All the other 4WD cars are SUVs- the RDX, MDX and the ZDX.

    The ILX is going to be a dud, no one wants a very expensive Civic that won't even offer a LSD.

    Hmm, we've gone quite far off topic...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    That's quite annoying too. When you think of the heritage behind the M3 badge, it's hard to switch it over to the M4. If I were a new owner of a M4 I'd probably just debadge it and stick an M3 badge on it.

    It's kind of like a store you've been to for years goes away and you still refer the new store using the old name.
    exctly. it just sounds wrong too. M4. 4 series.
    nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    If Mercedes-Benz can get away with the preposterous A-Class and still be a romping success, it is clear that people clearly do not care about which wheels are driven. Or handling. Or ride comfort.
    the A45 is mental. looks pretty sharp too. i think they've caught on because
    a) big V8's are nice, but for some AMG buyers not always practical/fashionable these days. C63 for him.. A45 for her.
    b) people who grew up in evo's and sti's are now getting older and looking for something similar that isn't so cheap to look at or sit in.

    it kind of reminds me of when audi introduced the A3.
    Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."

  8. #23
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    the majority of current 1-series drivers (who bought/leased the car because of the badge) thinks that the car is FWD, so BMW will just adapt its car to their beliefs....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutch-monkey View Post
    the A45 is mental. looks pretty sharp too. i think they've caught on because
    a) big V8's are nice, but for some AMG buyers not always practical/fashionable these days. C63 for him.. A45 for her.
    b) people who grew up in evo's and sti's are now getting older and looking for something similar that isn't so cheap to look at or sit in.

    it kind of reminds me of when audi introduced the A3.
    I don't know about the A45, but the standard car rides poorly and handles badly. It simply doesn't give you the confidence other cars do (even much cheaper ones).

    Superb brakes though!
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Superb brakes though!
    We make good brakes. I can officially say we.

  11. #26
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    As Ferrer said, Mini is already FWD and BMW did a fine job in that respect with making a good handling FWD car. Now make it without the chintzy, plastic trim and boutique styling and I think it'll be a good product. The issue with BMW is not something as fundamental as FWD/RWD, its their current weird lineup of super fine model segment...even number for Coupes and Odd for sedan? But what about the Grand Coupe? Or the crossover between their X# SUV and the regular car?

    That crap is confusing and doesn't make any sense...
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
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