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Thread: Ferrari vs. Porsche

  1. #1
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    Ferrari vs. Porsche

    I am normally against these sorta of broad sweeping "versus" threads - but we have some interesting members here and I want to hear their opinions (even if you're not interesting feel free to chime in - I kid I kid, everyone on UCP is great) What company do you prefer if at all, and why do you prefer that car maker? Or, if you have no preference, why are they tied in your eyes? Do you dislike them or love them?

    With these two, you essentially have the two most storied and celebrated sportscar makers in Europe, and maybe the World. Do you prefer one company but think the other is better? Which has the better image? Best bang for buck? Best supercar? Tell me your favourite car of each manufacturer, the best cars of each decade, whatever you want really - these are only some ideas to get you started. Which car maker makes prettier cars? The best racecar? Who is more successful in racing? Who was the better company leader, Enzo Ferrari or Ferdinand/Ferry Porsche? If price was no object what car would you buy form these makers? IF price was an object what car would you buy? The list goes on and on, come up with your own comparisons or ideas and let the thread evolve!

    Whatever you want to compare I want to hear your opinion. I find too many of these threads are created just so that the original poster can state their opinion - me telling you what I prefer is not what I or your probably want to hear. I want to hear from those that have driven these cars too (Nic I'm looking at you and eagerly anticipate your answer to this thread, ditto 60Valves and clutch) What will our resident Catalan think - he likes the more obscure cars typically, but what about these two big dogs? Does comparing them even make sense to you? Am I an idiot for proposing this? Have at it!

    I know this has been done many times throughout the ages in bars, trackside, and on the net, but to the best of my knowledge, it has not been done on UCP - so impress me with you responses/ideas!

  2. #2
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    there are so many aspects involving what define a car maker, a brand, that is actually difficult even to talk about one without simply listing its story and facts as many books did, let alone comparing to such made names.

    from an amount of point of view, I could love or hate both of those.

    starting with simplicity, Porsche introduced an idea of an affordable sports car, flooding the world with about 60.000 units just of the first 356. despite giving excellent performance, it was relatively cheap, and even simple, relying on VW parts.
    it was a revolution, acting at millions miles of distance from the high end and hand grafted and bodied cars build in Modena, for example.
    I should love Porsche just for this reason, it gave us a car we can actually dream of.
    wait...or should I hate it for this very reason? after all, the world is flooded by classless owners of 911 too, giving them not only the sports car, but also the idea that even the exclusivity and a place in the first class was on sale with the car.

    but on the other hand, Ferrari gave us a car we could struggle to find a way to won it for our entire lives, something so far from us, sometimes we find out we are disliking it. and at the same time, those who can afford it, became more spoiled, convinced to be the creme de la creme, just because of the badge. but, this exclusivity, carried over also some works of art, some jewels we wouldn't even have imagined, creating an image lasting since 60 years in a way probably all the other automakers can only dream of, as we dream of those red cars.
    I find an almost-selfish form of expression, being a car or a portrait, the best ispiring, bringing your focus directly to the point of the matter, without any influence, trade off, or whatsoever external factor, like production issues, safety regulations and a wide portfolio of owners.
    so props to both from this point of view, which means, generally, I would really like, even with a relatively small quantity of money, to buy a first gn 911, like the one driven by Robert Redford in spy Games, and I would love the feeling of being a part, one of the fundamental ones, of a history started a long time ago and evolving into a myth.
    but on the other hand, we have the possibility to spend tons of money on a car, and it's probably going to be a Ferrari, even more, a custom made one, perhaps, even base don my specific requests, a la P4/5.
    seriously, thinking to involve a car in such a program, an the mind immediately goes to a Ferrari, it's probably rare to come out with the idea of a rebodied 911.
    this lead to some other aspects, first of all, Porsche seems to be recognized, at least at first glance, by only one car, the 991. second, when I say custom made Ferrari we think at a specific example of the 250 GT California for instance, or to the aforementioned P4/5, while saying a rebodied Porsche leads to the garage of TechArt, 9ff and the likes. two completely different worlds.
    finally, I found out I'm talking about the modern era, which leads me to consider the mass car producer Porsche became, with over 100.000 units a year, cars and engines based on VW products, and owning VAG too, and the growing reality Ferrari is, with almost 7.000 cars sold this year, the new California set to raise that figure to almsot 10.000 (if the economy stands up), and the Maserati brand under its protection, together with some spin-off project from Alfa Romeo, even if not officially, while trying to reduce costs using Fiat's technology.

    I can't like Porsche thinking to what they did to survive. if we are screaming at a lost of the soul for modern Ferrari, what about the Cayenne? it's not a Porsche product, it doesn't use Porsche's engines, it isn't something you would have asked to Porsche ten years ago also, but as stated somewhere else, by the idea we are not choosing the product, the market offers it to us, here we go with the SUV.
    Porsche not only recovered itself, but it grown so much, now it has to face rules bigger and much less exotic brands are supposed to, being also rumored to produce smaller products to pull down the emissions of the whole brand and so on.
    another important thing to say, while these cars, being the Suv or the usual 911, drive well and go fast, they are ugly too, even tasteless in some aspects.
    The new Panamera just underlines the fact a car doesn't need to be good looking it the true sense of the words, but just refined, showy, uniformed with the market and not personal. I see it as an inform mass of metal, as the Cayenne too.
    The Cayman/Boxter are the best looking, in the Porsche family, but they also stand for a kind of customer quite similar to that of a Cayenne, just in beach style.

    is Ferrari in a better position?
    with the Enzo/MC12 and their para-racing editions they demonstrated they lack of ideas any now and then. also, the relationships between the two companies never worked completely. Maserati is back in black (ink), but their offices are full just of Ferrari's heads even now that the two are supposedly separated. Still they gifted us with some astonishing creations, as the Granturismo or the 8C dynamic duo.
    they are not the best handling cars, nor the most advanced and so on, but they are beautiful, and that's something I can live with. actually, I never pretended them to be the performer some wanted. I can0t imagine a Maserati or 8C customer going to track days as if it drove a GT3. Some for the DBS, also.
    considering directly Ferrari, it's latest design theme doesn't completely work for me, it lacks of details, or at least it seems to me it makes the cars look as if they were built out of a single piece. Not an informed one as in the case of the Panamera, but at the same time refined and detailed just on the surface. as if the technology talking under the skin was enough.
    it isn't. that's why Porsche kept winning coty awards with a quite simple concept as the GT3/RS duo. because it was something more communicative, more immediate and also controllable by the driver, like if he was a part of the car, not just the driver, or the operator pushing a series if buttons.
    Ferrari is failing at this maybe, involving the driver in the drive, making him the subject of the drive, not the object.

    I could go on, but here it's late, and I'm tired.
    cheers.
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  3. #3
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    i guess i'll take a stab at this.

    i will tip my hat to the ferrari side. i have been a ferrari fan since before i can remember. the testarossa/512 TR is still ingrained in my brain as the best car in the world. it was the car i lusted after from the first time i saw one. the F40 hadn't come out yet, and the TR was the baddest car on the block. lamborghini had the countach and while i did have a poster of it on my wall, i always thought it was a bit garish.

    the porsche brand i grew up with was full of ugly targas with black rimmed whale tails. there was no good car for me to want. there was the 959, but it never officially came to our shores. there was one illegally imported one in SoCal which I managed to see in '90 or so. but other than that there wasnt a porsche i wanted, so i never got attached to them.

    so through all of this, the prancing horse has consistently delivered better products. the F40, 456GT, F355, 550/575, F50, and on and on. what has porsche done? 911, 911, 911, hairdresser car, truck, supercar that was exceedingly difficult to drive? not really passion building.

    there have been exceptionsi remember when the 994 turbo came out. it was a fantastic car. rediculously fast, gorgeous, and at its first test was the fastest accelerating car motor trend had ever tested. it won pikes peak showroom stock class. it was one porsche that i wanted.

    today things are starting to change for me. as i can now start to afford good cars, the desire for good hardcore performance cars appeals to me, and a ferrari is still too much money for me. that has led me to reconsider my longtime dislike of porsches. so now i have been looking at the 994 turbos again. not likely any time soon, but a possibility for the future. ferrari is still the car i would prefer, but the porsche is much more attainable.
    Honor. Courage. Commitment. Etcetera.

  4. #4
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    Wow, Leon. I feel a "this" is in order.

    Ten years ago, maybe even fifteen (as I still think it's the early '00s), it would have been Ferrari in a heartbeat. Porsche was making just the 996 and the Boxster. Both of these cars were underwhelming stylistically and were not lusted after by young boys (me). They were very civilized, none of the lunacy of dangerous rear-heavy air-cooled panzers.
    Ferrari, on the other hand, was making the 355 and the 360, both of which were sights to behold. Ferrari was not quite at the peak of its game, but it was doing quite well. Their cars were new and exiting and all Lambo had to offer was the botoxed and facelifted, but still old-looking Diablo. In other words Ferrari was winning the bedroom-poster war.
    A Ferrari was a rare treat that made me smile and think what I would do when I grew up and had a million dollars, the Porsches where just cars that my mom swore at, and told me not to use the words she used.
    Ferrari had so much further to to fall.

    Then, in the early '00s, it went horribly wrong for both of them. Porsche: the creator of so many light, lithe, but not-quite-special-enough sportscars released what can only be classified as a lump. I was pretty sure that the Cayenne was a badly done custom job in which somebody had the front of their SUV replaced with a Boxster front-end. When I learned this was a Porsche I was not as heartbroken as you might expect, as I never had very high standards for Porsches (I was too young and not enough into cars to know about their rather epic past).

    However, when Ferrari stopped putting pop-up headlights on their cars and went into a Schumacher-induced state of pride (which the Church of Ferrari, the Catholic Church, lists as the worst of the Seven Deadly sins), they lost their specialness and became too serious, too Japanese, and too German. Though now I appreciate (but, critically, I don't like) the understated F430's styling, back then it was horribly boring and so un-Italian and un-Ferrari. To the present day, Ferrari has continued in this vein. The Enzo is a shockingly ugly car and the California makes me want to bomb the factory and cease to be a Californian. I also like to root for the underdog, and when I started watching F1, the massive throngs of tifosi turned me away. We go on and on about how stupid the average motorist is, on this site, and the average motorist is a Ferrari fanboy. Those of you with amazing memories and those of you who are stalking me will note that I voted for the 599 in the recent 599 vs. DBS thread. This is because I acknowledge the 599 to be the better car, but it has no soul or charisma. I would rather have a 911 S than one, and the only reason I picked it over the DBS is because of the Aston's factory-rice look, which I feel is worse than boring.

    Porsche on the other hand was making what in my view were pretty boring cars. I had accepted that the 996 and the Boxster were boring looking and that the Cayenne was there and was stupid. These were just facts of life. But, then, Porsche came out with the 997, one of my favorite looking cars at the time. At the same time I started seeing more old Porsches as well, 993s, 914s, the occasional 356 etc... These cars blew me away. Porsche could only really rise from where it had been, and I love almost all of the 997 variants as well as the Cayman and Carrera GT (a truly handsome car, in my opinion.)

    You might notice that I have included almost nothing about either of the companies' histories. My views of Ferrari and Porsche are firmly rooted in my earlier impressionable years. As I've grown older, I've begun to learn and appreciate what came before me from these two a little more. Even in that I am a bigger fan of Porsche. I have always been more interested in the late 60s/70s than I am in the 50s(that's not to say I don't like things from the 50s). 908s, 935s, and 917 ruled the world then. Beyond that, in the 80s, Porsche kept winning and kept making attractive(ish) car. The "folded paper" Ferraris for the mid-70s to late-80s are downright ugly in my opinion. The mid-70s to late 80s were a styling cluster**** for all manufacturers, but Porsche managed to weather the storm and produce cars with curves.

    I have left some pretty large holes in this, but I don't feel like writing any more.

    For me: Porsche.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  5. #5
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    How about I say porsche, tell you it's because of the 917 and variants, and I won't leave a monstrous amount of text.


    EDIT: And Ferrari have become whores with their own brand, which isn't a desirable quality unless you buy their irrelevant, branded crap.
    Last edited by W.R.; 01-31-2009 at 01:11 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Do you prefer one company but think the other is better?
    - I prefer Ferrari, but Porsche has done a good job of keeping its cars small and usable. Porsche’s work with turbos is also amazing. I don’t necessarily think Porsche is a better company, but it’s done a few things I like better than Ferrari

    Which has the better image?
    - Let’s face it: there’s a lot of cheeseballs that drive both Porsches and Ferraris. To me the positive image of Ferrari is of an Italian playboy who wears slimcut Prada suits, has excellent footwork and no fear of speed; the negative Ferrari image features a lot of chest hair and gold chains. The positive Porsche imagine involves a driver with nerves of steel, ice in his veins and fears neither autobahn nor mountain road; the negative image is a spoiled housewife driving a turbo with tiptronic to go shopping . . . and then there’s the Cayenne.

    Best bang for buck?
    - Porsche. Let’s be serious here, Ferraris are really expensive. But not over priced.

    Best supercar?
    - Ferrari. The 288 GTO? Godlike. The F40? Beyond Godlike. The F50? The styling isn’t holding up but God like to drive. The Enzo? The styling divides opinion but is still God like to drive. Porsche has really only built one Supercar – the Carrera GT, which is God like to drive. Porsche’s other supercars were really all just derivatives of the 911 (that doesn’t mean I don’t love you 959). Ferrari wins, but if Porsche had more Carrera GTs in it’s history it might be a tie.


    Tell me your favourite car of each manufacturer:
    - Ferrari: 250 California LWB. Porsche: 356A Speedster.

    The best cars of each decade (I’m sticking to road cars):
    - Ferrari: 50s 250 California, 60s 275 GTB/4, 70s 365 GTC/4, 80s F40, 90s F355 GTB, 00s 575 Marenello. Porsche: 50s 356A Speedster, 60s 911S, 70s Carrera 2.7, 80s 928S, 90s 993 Carrera S, 00s 997 GT3 (pre-facelift).


    Which car maker makes prettier cars?
    - Ferrari. Ferrari has a litany of gorgeous cars a mile long. The 911 had its ups and downs and frankly most of the company’s best stuff was left on the track.

    The best racecar?
    - I’m not sure if this is an answerable question, so let me say this: the 250TR is the definitive Ferrari racecar and the 917 is the definitive Porsche racecar, both from a historical perspective.

    Who is more successful in racing?
    - Ferrari. Ferrari has had a strong F1 program since the 40s AND a strong sports/GT program until the early 70s, Porsche has had a strong sports/GT program since the 40s but has never really had a strong F1 program.

    Who was the better company leader, Enzo Ferrari or Ferdinand/Ferry Porsche?
    - “Company Leader”? Enzo Ferrari. Engineer? Porsche.

    If price was no object what car would you buy form these makers?
    - Ferrari: either a 250 California LWB or a 250 Cabriolet Series I. Porsche: 356A Speedster or a 908E. Of more recent cars a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti (it looks good, but not great, but it drives ****ing PHENOMINALLY) and a Carrera GT.

    IF price was an object what car would you buy?
    - Ferrari: 1988 or 1989 328 GTS. Porsche: 996 coupe or 968 cabriolet.

    Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of love and respect for Porsche, but I feel like they’ve been resting on their laurels for some time now. Here’s a good place to start: If Porsche had built a rally version of the Cayenne first, raced it in Paris to Dakar and won and called the car the Dakar, purists would love it. But instead they highly modified a VW SUV and named it after a chili pepper. The Boxster is a good car until you consider that for 1/3 less money you can buy a BMW M Roadster that will eat the Boxster for breakfast or buy a Lotus Elise and have the best driving experience of your life. And the 911 just keeps getting softer and bigger. Finally, where’s the racing program? The GT3 RSR is getting clobbered and the RS Spyder is only successful in a class intended to test four cylinder engines for hatchbacks. And by the way, it’s not like Porsche doesn’t have the cash to invest in a real racing program – they just don’t care. Because if they cared, two diesel powered cars wouldn’t be fighting it out to win Le Mans.

    While I’m the first person to say that the current range of Ferraris is a bit over engined and over sized, the tiny company has the deepest commitment to engineering and building quality products and they don’t compromise. Plus Ferrari’s commitment to F1 is unwavering and they have a pretty nice GT racing program on the side. At the end of the day I’m a Ferrari guy. Because I’m an Italophile, because my father’s a Ferrari guy and because I believe their commitment to their ideals is stronger.



    Happy Kitdy? That only took me like an hour to write.
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

  7. #7
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    Porsche for me, it has been a porsche since I was born in 1981. There has been cars from Porsche which weren't perfect and didn't appeal to me. But I have forgiven and I consider this as a long-term relationship. Nowadays we are living very happy times with something like 997 around.

  8. #8
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    too hard. there's a lot to like in either brand.
    porsche makes sense to me, ferrari doesn't - which is part of it's appeal.
    both have their low points. it just seems ferrari's really high points occur more often.
    impossible question imo
    trackcars; porsche every time imo (but then...that's me factoring in price, economy, parts, reliability etc etc)
    ferrari's could be something truly special...to the point where you'd only drive it on that perfect sunday?
    Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."

  9. #9
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    Ferrari and Porsche. The eternal debate.

    For me it has to be the 911. I'm not interested in any other Porsche, altough that doesn't mean I wouldn't have them. And that doesn't mean I don't like some Ferraris either.

    But if you think about it, it's not really a natural comparison. Ferrari should be against Maserati or Aston Martin and Porsche against Lotus (or Alpine if it existed today). At the start they were two different companys. Ferrari was the aristocrat and Porsche was the underdog. In fact Ferrari already had experience with the very fast and successful prewar Alfa Romeos, while Porsche had to do with much humbler underpinnings. And yet slowly, Porsche started to crawl up with faster and faster cars, while Ferrari went slowly down.

    As a company Porsche entered adulthood with 917 and their first win at Le Mans in 1970. Incindentally from the 70's and until the 90's Ferrari seemed to have lost the plot a bit. They weren't as successful in racing as they had been and they cars had gotten too big and were a bit ungainly. Having just said that, maybe we're entering another Ferrari dark period? But well I guess we'll discuss that another day.

    The fact of the matter remains that since Porsche beat Ferrari at Le Mans and the 911 Turbo became the first road going Porsche to have Ferrari-rivalling performance those two car makers have been compared countless times. And as I said for me it has to be the 911 as a whole.

    Since I was a kid I liked the 911. It was simple and subtle and usable. But most of all it retained a degree of achievable dream that enhances its appeal. Also it was german which meant that it was well built and yet it was rear engined, arguably a fundamnetal flaw but it also made an incomformist. And that's so un-german. And of all the 911 variants made over the last 45 years the original Carrera RS 2.7 is the finest of them all. But since it's quite expensive these days I'll happily settle for a 993 Carrera. Some Ferraris may have outperformed the 911 in some aspect but hardly any (or even arguably any at all) has beaten it yet at its all round performance.

    There have been many other Porsches made over the years and some have been pretty brilliant (the current mid engined cars or the 928 spring to my mind), but I frankly can't be bothered about them. That's not to say I would mind having one of those, I wouldn't, but if I were to buy a Porsche what I'd really want is a 911.

    As for Ferrari, well I've always liked italian cars (which I'm guessing, it's not really a surpirse). Italian cars, from the cheapest Fiat to the most expensive Pagani are always so full of passion and soul. As with any other man made object cars reflect the country they are made in. And as such Italy, being a bit caothic and not very good objectively is such a nice place to be in. And this shows clearly in italian cars.

    Ferrari has made several masterpieces, from the Colombo V12 engine to the astonishing elegance, presence and charisma of the 456GT. And as such cars like the 275GTB or the F355 are a dream for any car enthusiast, and rightly so. However unlike Porsche, Ferrari has never been very constant (possibly because it had no long lasting model) so while they've made some great cars there's also the 400i or the Testarossa next to them, which in my opinion are, let's say, less fortunate.

    Today, however cars seem to be perfect. They are very fast and very technologically advanced and the racing team seems to be winning everything (or at least it used to). This however has created a problem for Ferrari. Aware of their success, Ferraris have become arrogant and selfish up to the point, that you are almost embarrassed to be in one. They also seem to have put science and maths before passion and soul. And that's so un-italian.

    Old Ferraris may have been worse, they may have boked down every hundred yard and they may not have been as well built as Mercedes-Benzes. But when you saw one you knew that it was just right. Yes the electrics were temperamental and the dashobard had more lights on than a christmas tree. But they were making automobiles. Some of the finest automobiles ever made. Now they are just making giant 200.000€ posters. They may be perfect, but the magic is somewhat gone. And that's just wrong.
    Last edited by Ferrer; 01-31-2009 at 06:07 AM.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  10. #10
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    short and sweet, Porsche for everyday, Ferrari for once in a while!
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  11. #11
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    Ferrari as a financial crisis-proof investment. Porsche to drive.
    Horsepower wins races. Torque pulls trailers.

    http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/webcam/webcam.jpg <Live cast from the 'Ring.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    Happy Kitdy? That only took me like an hour to write.
    I didn't mean to stress you , but you wrote a excellent piece and it was very interesting to read.

    Props to you Nic.

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    I think that I couldn´t choose one out of the two, because at the end of the day I want them both to exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I didn't mean to stress you , but you wrote a excellent piece and it was very interesting to read.

    Props to you Nic.
    Me too. Congrat !

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Ferrari and Porsche. The eternal debate.



    ...They may be perfect, but the magic is somewhat gone. And that's just wrong.
    Good speech.
    Actually the Ferrari magic has gone from current models and they are far from a perfect machine: Every mile cost a lot of bucks in routine maintenance.

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