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Thread: Ferrari hybrid awd system and other solutions...for real?

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    Ferrari hybrid awd system and other solutions...for real?

    Rumors from various mayor sites call these images to be the proof of a patent filled by Ferrari for its new AWD and hybrid system. As you can see there are various different schemes.
    I won't hide it, I'm doubtful.
    Mostly because afaik they worked on the AWD (by Haldex) without considering any sort of hybrid system to attach to it. So it was a merely mechanical system and only on front engined cars.

    Atm Ferrari i working on two new cars, the new F430 scheduled for Frankfurt and not provided both of a AWD system or a KERS one. It isn't designed to accomodate them.
    the other car is the 612 replacement, designed to accomodate the AWD system which shouldn't be available for some time though.
    So it doesn't exist another mid-engined project, let alone with kers or AWD. The project for the new 599 isn't started yet.

    Also, the projects related to a hybrid system, whatever it might be, are in a very early stage, trying to connect the hybrid system from Magneti Marelli, under early stage of development, to a 599 (iir, or maybe it was a612 612) mule.
    Also I don't see the point of such schemes.

    Regardless of what I think, I will ask to my mate if he knows something more, despite now working in Maserati (Corse) since some months.

    The first three images seem to refer to mid-engined cars, showing:
    - a mechanical AWD system connected to a sort of kers/efficientdynamics system for both axles transferring the power to the front semi-shaft
    - a mechanical RWD system with front wheels potentially driven by two electric motors, with the relative hybrid system attached only to the front axle
    - a standard mechanical AWD system connected to a hybrid system to recover some energy and use in some way

    Pics 4,5,6 are of a front engined car.
    - mechanical RWD system with a kers system connected to the rear wheels and providing a part of the energy to the front wheels driven by electric motors, and connected to another kers device
    - mechanical RWD system with a part of the power generated by the engine directly sent to the tow front wheels trough a couple of electric motors. A kers device is connected to the front shaft
    - a mechanical RWD system with a kers device
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Let's clear something up first: All this stuff adds a lot of weight and requires a larger car to house all this stuff, and of course larger, heavier cars are the reason for pollution.

    Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a car with a small twin-turbo engine that makes extensive use of carbon fiber and titanium than a car with all this stuff.
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    Let's clear something up first: All this stuff adds a lot of weight and requires a larger car to house all this stuff, and of course larger, heavier cars are the reason for pollution.

    Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a car with a small twin-turbo engine that makes extensive use of carbon fiber and titanium than a car with all this stuff.
    Indeed. Except for the turbos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    Let's clear something up first: All this stuff adds a lot of weight and requires a larger car to house all this stuff, and of course larger, heavier cars are the reason for pollution.
    This hybrid system delivers the benefit it is intended to deliver: Lower emissions in standardised tests for EU - US and so forth.

    Of course if you floor the throttle, the weight of the system will handicap you, since it is unlikely to provide much propulsion anyway. Only city driving will make a big difference.

    I would prepare for a Stradale / Scuderia version without the hybrid stuff...
    Minimising losses can maximise net gains

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    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    Let's clear something up first: All this stuff adds a lot of weight and requires a larger car to house all this stuff, and of course larger, heavier cars are the reason for pollution.

    Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a car with a small twin-turbo engine that makes extensive use of carbon fiber and titanium than a car with all this stuff.
    let's clear another thing: this isn't done to lower pollution of the car, but to pass the tests (which is enormously different) and to make them faster/easier to drive in certain conditions.

    and yes, the cars are larger. they started to consider the AWD after the initial part of the project, so the overall definition was already done, and therefore the car isn't much larger due to the system, while they struggled to fit everything though.

    btw, the mate just arrived, I'm going to ask him
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    and he raised the BS flag.
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    So all is well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    So all is well.
    not exactly. The new 612 is designed to adopt the awd, even if a conventional one. The hybrid system, whatever it will come out being, could be fitted with the restyling, or directly on the next 599 which atm doesn't exist.
    Mid-engined cars won't have both the awd or the hybrid system for the whole next generation.
    If things develop quickly, a hybrid could be adopted by the F142 at the mid/end of its life.

    Personal thought: there is the remote possibility that the first car adopting the hybrid system could be the next Quattroporte, together with the AWD.
    But it's just a guess since the Quattroporte VI is being designed since a week or so.
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    Is the 4WD system part-time, that only comes in whem the rear tires have zero grip, or will it be a more full-time system?
    I would like to see the cars shrink dimensionally as well. Kitdy and I were talking about how, for a new generation of car, it might be cheaper to shrink it than to use lightweight materials. Still, if they want to use loads of titanium and CF, I'm not going to be able to afford a Ferrari anytime soon, they can be my guest.
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    This hybrid system would suit more the California and the 612, because they are not so performance oriented. Of course all the range could benefit from this, but I can see all Hollywood stars showing in their Hybrid Ferraris, saving the environment and ditching the Prius....
    Minimising losses can maximise net gains

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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    Is the 4WD system part-time, that only comes in whem the rear tires have zero grip, or will it be a more full-time system?
    I would like to see the cars shrink dimensionally as well. Kitdy and I were talking about how, for a new generation of car, it might be cheaper to shrink it than to use lightweight materials. Still, if they want to use loads of titanium and CF, I'm not going to be able to afford a Ferrari anytime soon, they can be my guest.
    should be an awd-on-demand

    Quote Originally Posted by lightweight View Post
    This hybrid system would suit more the California and the 612, because they are not so performance oriented. Of course all the range could benefit from this, but I can see all Hollywood stars showing in their Hybrid Ferraris, saving the environment and ditching the Prius....
    actually the 612 is pretty performing. Then it might be slower or more comfortable than a 575 or of a 595, but the design is pretty extreme.

    Such systems would surely easier to adopt on a 612 though. Being larger as a given fact, it would allow to fit them relatively more easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    not exactly. The new 612 is designed to adopt the awd, even if a conventional one. The hybrid system, whatever it will come out being, could be fitted with the restyling, or directly on the next 599 which atm doesn't exist.
    Mid-engined cars won't have both the awd or the hybrid system for the whole next generation.
    If things develop quickly, a hybrid could be adopted by the F142 at the mid/end of its life.

    Personal thought: there is the remote possibility that the first car adopting the hybrid system could be the next Quattroporte, together with the AWD.
    But it's just a guess since the Quattroporte VI is being designed since a week or so.
    The current 612/599 have excellent balance due to the front engine/rear tranny, but in order to make their replacements AWD you would either need to move the tranny to the front (ruining the balance) or add a second drive shaft (which despite the added weight seems to work pretty well in the Nissan GT-R). However, adding AWD to the 430 replacement will add fairly little in weight and still maintain close to the proper weight distribution.
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

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    Why would you need/want 4 wheel drive at all though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Why would you need/want 4 wheel drive at all though?
    suppose you aren't real technical person, neither a real enthusiast. you're just rich.
    You want a Ferrari, but you noticed Lamborghinis are awd.
    Since you're always looking for more, you want it.
    That's the first reason.
    the secon reason is make it easier to drive on snow or wet surfaces to not particularly good drivers, such as football players, their girlfriends and so on.

    It isn't even sure if we'll see it in at least 4 years or so when the next 599 will come out, or if it will ever be used.
    I'll keep listening is Maserati will get it though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    suppose you aren't real technical person, neither a real enthusiast. you're just rich.
    You want a Ferrari, but you noticed Lamborghinis are awd.
    Since you're always looking for more, you want it.
    That's the first reason.
    the secon reason is make it easier to drive on snow or wet surfaces to not particularly good drivers, such as football players, their girlfriends and so on.

    It isn't even sure if we'll see it in at least 4 years or so when the next 599 will come out, or if it will ever be used.
    I'll keep listening is Maserati will get it though.
    I can tell you that if I was in charge things would be different. And as always costumers should removed from the engineering decisions.

    The 4 wheel drive in the Maserati will be as an option alongside rear wheel drive, or standard and rear wheel drive discontinued?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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