Failed cars that shouldn't have

[Ferrer]

Maybe Piech should have called it a Porsche...

Or a Bugatti...

[Timothy (in VA)]

- The entire current Mercury lineup
- The Pontiac G8
- The Chevrolet Corvair

Also, when they first came out I was sure that the Chrysler Crossfire and the Cadillac XLR would be successful, but in retrospect it's not that surprising that they never really took off.

[Kitdy]

I think people need to start saying why the cars that failed shouldn't have failed. Many of the cars listed in my eyes have perfectly logical reasons as to why they have failed. I think some are assuming that everyone is the perfect customer and doesn't take into account human irrationalities, prejudices, and emotions.

I see Tim's examples for one, and think to myself that they should have failed basically.

The G8 was released 10 years too late when gas prices were really high.

The current Mercury lineup was an unneeded middle ground between Fords and Lincolns.

The Corvair was not a good looking car (to me at least) and of course, the rear-engined design coupled with the swing axle gave it "interesting" let's say handling characteristics.

The VW Phaeton was doomed to failure from it's inception. Part of the reason people buy premium cars is for the status - the Phaeton does not have an Audi badge on it, it has a Volkswagen badge. Who the shit let Piech get away with giving this the green light? For that matter, who let him make the Veyron?

It makes sense why the Phaeton failed. Maybe as a car it was good - that's fine - but it shouldn't have succeed due to a critical error - the wrong badge.

The Avantime looks absolutely hideous. That is why it failed. It makes perfect sense to me - it should not have succeeded. One of the primary elements of car design is an attractive - or at least, inoffensive - design to appeal (or not anger) the customer.

Was the Avantime expensive when compared to other vans it competed with?

As for Alfas well, where do you start? I will focus on modern Alfas as I know a bit more about them. Alfas when they were not owned by Fiat had something about them that people loved. Maybe this didn't translate into sales (or profit), but they had something. I'd guess that their reputation of breaking all the time (like all Italian cars of that era are viewed) was a major factor in them not gaining mass market appeal. Then Fiat took over, and badge engineering started to creep in. Now, as we discussed in the other thread, they are trying to be something they aren't - trying to compete with the Germans. They can't win this game - the German Three have the prestige, the image, the status, that an Alfa can't have. They are also rear wheel drive, which many enthusiasts swear by.

[csl177]

The Matra-built Avantime failed as much because of poor sales caused by Renault introducing the up-market Vel Satis, as Matra's own financial difficulties... caused partly by Renault's actions. Taste is of course subjective, but the Avantime was technologically superior to the Vel Satis. We had the distinct pleasure of being driven to several wineries in Bourdeaux in chauffeured Avantimes, fast and quite plush. Loved them, wish there had been a US market available at the time.

Others have commented on VW's mistake with the Phaeton. I'll pick out three "enthusiasts" cars to discuss: Toyota's MR2, GM's Pontiac Fiero, and Honda's S2000.

The beloved MR2 experienced declining sales in each of it's iterations, largely because Toyota never really focused on it... their core market is mass appeal to the broadest buying audience. First gen. car was a Fiat X19 with performance and dependability, and sold well. Second gen. was more attractive but heavier, more luxurious but priced as such. Third gen. was the most fun but styling didn't help it... end of the line.

GM blew it's opportunities with the Fiero the same way it had with Corvair a generation earlier: parts bin engineering, looks without matching performance, and by the time Pontiac got it right, the market had moved on.

Honda likely never intended the S2000 to sell better than it did, but price, practicality and limited performance from what was great promise did it in. Similar to the NSX story, no?

[clutch-monkey]

The G8 was released 10 years too late when gas prices were really high.

this and the remade GTO (why not just badge it as something else.
although the gas price bullshit doesn't wash imo, it sells fine everywhere else.. where fuel costs more.

[coolieman1220]

new GTO here and the G8

[Lotec_Sirius]

I'll say something more obscure, the Tommy Kaira ZZII. It is one of the most beautiful and best performing cars to ever come from Japan, and it was only going to cost $100,000, for a car with a top speed of 210 mph.

Also the Jaguar XJ220, it's always looked upon as a failure but really it should go down as a legendary British exotic.

[f6fhellcat13]

The GTO stayed on sale for much longer than expected, so I wouldn't call it a failure. It was just an experiment, really.

The G8 on the other hand...

[Cobrafan427]

Have to agree w/ Tim on the XLR. The only reason i can come up w/ is that it failed b/c it had less power and cost more than the Corvette. People i suppose didn't want to pay more for better styling and some luxury

[Kitdy]

this and the remade GTO (why not just badge it as something else.
although the gas price bullshit doesn't wash imo, it sells fine everywhere else.. where fuel costs more.

You have to factor in the relatively high use of gas though. Gas may be cheap here, but people are used to paying for cheap gas. If a car comes out like the G8 that is heavy and powerful, when you compare fuel mileage to other cars it doesn't make as much sense to buy. The Commodore (G8) is also sold, where, Australia - where it's a cultural institution, so gas prices aren't as vital on that - and the Middle East, where gas is cheap as shit.

As for South Africa and Brazil - how familiar are you with the sales of the Commodore there? How expensive is gas there?

[pimento]

I really want an Avantime..

It does seem the G8 should have been more successful that it was, given the resurgence of muscle cars the fuel price can't be that big of an issue. Was it available with the V6 over there? The majority of commodes sold here are the V6.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It was a good car tied to a dying brandname and marketed fairly poorly.

Plus, It's like buying a pastiche version of American muscle, when the Mustang is down the street and the Camaro is further down the lot.

You can say a lot of things about the G8 but one thing I will say is that in comparison to it's competition, it was positively subtle, and if there is one thing the American musclecar market doesn't take to, it's subtlety.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I'll say something more obscure, the Tommy Kaira ZZII. It is one of the most beautiful and best performing cars to ever come from Japan, and it was only going to cost $100,000, for a car with a top speed of 210 mph.

Also the Jaguar XJ220, it's always looked upon as a failure but really it should go down as a legendary British exotic.

AFAIK the ZZII was never produced, and couldn't find a review so whatever they claimed about it, it sounds a bit too much up in the air to really consider it.

The XJ 220 is one of my favorite exotics though, and I could live with all its flaws.

[henk4]

When I saw a Thesis this afternoon, my mind wandered back to the sixties, and the Fiat 130, in particular the extremely beautiful coupe version. I think their main set-back was extreme thirst, but apart from that those cars deserved much better.

[roosterjuicer]

Chevy SSR and Dodge Prowler