View Poll Results: What car will win the 2008 Wheels Car of the Year

Voters
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  • Audi A4

    10 22.22%
  • BMW 1-series Coupe

    3 6.67%
  • Ford Falcon FG

    15 33.33%
  • Honda Accord

    0 0%
  • Honda Accord Euro

    2 4.44%
  • Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X

    1 2.22%
  • Jaguar XF

    5 11.11%
  • Mazda6

    3 6.67%
  • Volkswagen Tiguen

    1 2.22%
  • Mercedes-Benz C63

    2 4.44%
  • Honda Jazz

    3 6.67%
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Thread: 2008 Wheels Car of the Year - what car will win?

  1. #16
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    yes, but Australian roads are significantly different to your average european road.

    Namely, dryer, more rocky, dusty, and more rhythmic in their corrugations, especially.

    John Carey, the motoring writer who tested the vehicle, found the steering lifeless and the suspension unable to cope.

    Which, when I read, was a surprise, but the new C5 is attempting somewhat of a sporty bend....
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorsportnerd View Post
    I'll directly quote the magazine. "After two days under the microscope, the Citroen C5...failed to convince [the judges] of their merit. Through the slalom, the big Citroen teamed lifeless electric steering with an understeer-prone chassis. On the road, the soft C5 lacked body control, yet still suffered crash-through over sharp hits. Over coarse-chip tarmac, there was also a surprising - and unwelcome - amount of road noise."
    I will eat my hat if somebody can prove to me that the C5 has an electrically assisted steering. And road noise also depends on the choice of tyres.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post

    John Carey, the motoring writer who tested the vehicle, found the steering lifeless and the suspension unable to cope.

    Which, when I read, was a surprise, but the new C5 is attempting somewhat of a sporty bend....
    It is so contrary to tests that I read here, not only French but also German and Dutch. I am sure that if the steering was as dead as this guy implies, other magazines would have made similar comments, as they prefer direct steering cars. I quote from "Autovisie" (the Dutch magazine that started the European COTY over 40 years ago) talking about a 2.7HDI...

    "On bumpy roads there are hardly any cars which match the absorption capability and also the general stability of this Citroen"
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #19
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    I haven't driven a C5. However, I was quoting directly from the magazine. Perhaps the staff there haven't read the specs properly (in regards to the electrically assisted steering). If so, it brings the magazine's credibility (and by implication the whole Australian motoring press, as Wheels is the premier magazine here) into issue.
    Just as likely, they don't particularly like the C5 for whatever reason. The current issue is the second issue where the tester, John Carey, has mentioned his dislike for the steering.

    Its probably best I direct you to their website: Wheels - Wheels Magazine - Car Reviews - Road Tests | Wheelsmag. Over the next few days they should get the section for this years Car of the Year award up and running. Perhaps you can ask the editors directly in the blogs on there to prove to you that the C5 has electrically assisted steering. If you do, and you get a response, direct us to it so we can see.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  5. #20
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    Of interest, a different writer, Mike McCarthy, is much more positive about the C5. Here's his brief road test on the Wheels site: http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/Road_Tes...ullarticle=yes

    Perhaps the C5 didn't make it in primarily because one of the judges - John Carey - doesn't like it and none of the others liked it enough to stand up for it.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I've had a major argument with MoSpoNerd about the newness criteria, Slick. I have to say the inclusion of the Falcon was probably an edge decision - meaning it could have gone either way.

    Rather than incurring the wrath of Australia, they erred on the side of "Why not?"

    I just don't think it's a new enough car, personally. the point of the newness test was to either change significantly dimensions of the vehicle or include major chassis/drivetrain revisions. The FG does neither over the BF.
    Yes lobster.. But I'd go on body as much as drivetrain. And atleast this time over the BA we have seen a change exterior wise.. All be it drivetrain is similarly same with upgrades. New front end steering but basically the same package. That new feel should be there as long as you dont look to long at the mondeo your fine.

    But it does question the sportwagon going on VZ to this. We cold argue the same thing but holden didnt need another car in the field.
    "Just a matter of time i suppose"

    "The elevator is broke, So why don't you test it out"

    "I'm not trapped in here with all of you, Your all trapped in here with me"

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike McCarthy - Wheels Mag
    With Citroën’s computer-controlled self-levelling Hydractive3 hydro-pnuematic springing, the impressively supple ride is unusually willowy (and quiet).... At first the C5 feels comparatively soft and a bit floaty even on the firmer of its two settings. But familiarity and hard cornering prove that the handling, grip and body control are, in their own Citroën-esque ways, the stuff of which fast, flowing cruising is made
    I think the situation MoSpoNerd has described occured. Other Journalists might have disagreed with Mr. Carey's version of events, or he just found a nasty bit of road, but none of them were so inspired by the car to fight it's non-inclusion.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I think the situation MoSpoNerd has described occured. Other Journalists might have disagreed with Mr. Carey's version of events, or he just found a nasty bit of road, but none of them were so inspired by the car to fight it's non-inclusion.
    well, if behaviour and comfort on poor roads is an issue what on earth is the BMW 1-series doing there?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #24
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    Because the vehicle has no pretensions of ride comfort - it's designed to be sporty & offer feedback. The C5 is designed to isolate the cabin from external influences - namely, the road surface.

    Because the 1 Series Coupe is considered a performance vehicle, a whole plethora of sins are forgiven.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Because the 1 Series Coupe is considered a performance vehicle, a whole plethora of sins are forgiven.
    objective selections down the drain
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #26
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    Well, as MoSpoNerd indicated, people weren't particularly willing to fight for that vehicle, either.

    This Award is about overall excellence in a variety of categories. If the C5 had managed to scrape through on dynamics it would have been murdered on Value for money, amongst other things.

    While there aren't that many diesel vehicles in it's class to compete with, the fact you can get a Mazda 6 or Honda Accord Euro (essentially the Model you receive in Europe - we receive both down under) for cheaper, and it can be argued objectively they are better cars - for a discount kills them.

    It's a similar thing for the A4 - is the extra cost buying you a better car?
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorsportnerd View Post
    The Falcon BA looked quite different to the AU it replaced - front and rear anyway. However, it ran substantially new engines, upgraded transmissions, had new front and rear chassis structure, new suspension, completely new interior and in terms of the way it drove was light years ahead of the AU. Much of the technology that found its way into the BA - such as the IRS and the 24-valve engines - weren't actually due until the FG. Which in turn was originally due a few years ago. But such was the amount of money spent transforming the AU into the BA that it lived much longer than originally planned with only a couple of facelifts over the six year life of the BA-BF. So to me the BA was the revolutionary car. Whereas the FG is the evolutionary car - it even looks evolutionary.

    As for the Sportwagon - I believe its ineligible because it is not sufficiently new in comparison to the VE sedan range (rather than in comparison to the VZ wagon). It uses most of the same structure and chassis as the VE sedan, so they didn't consider it a model in its own right.

    Of more interest is how did the C63 make it in? It must be significantly different to the normal C-Class to warrant inclusion.

    And since the C63 made it in, I'm not sure how the TRD Aurion didn't. It seems to be as different to the standard Aurion as the C63 is to the standard C-Class.
    The IRS was the biggest change to the BA. Looks wise you couldn't miss the AU right in the guts. Ford might say door trims roof isn't the same. Well holden told me i couldn't fit WH Statesman gear into a VT. wernt they wrong. I even maniged to smuggle in some VZ bits.
    From my time in a AU they steered the same they didnt handle the same.
    They went differnt but sounded the same.

    Hey what about the territory ?. Only change was steering rack ?. Bascially same everything as the BA only in a SUV package.
    "Just a matter of time i suppose"

    "The elevator is broke, So why don't you test it out"

    "I'm not trapped in here with all of you, Your all trapped in here with me"

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Well, as MoSpoNerd indicated, people weren't particularly willing to fight for that vehicle, either.

    This Award is about overall excellence in a variety of categories. If the C5 had managed to scrape through on dynamics it would have been murdered on Value for money, amongst other things.

    While there aren't that many diesel vehicles in it's class to compete with, the fact you can get a Mazda 6 or Honda Accord Euro (essentially the Model you receive in Europe - we receive both down under) for cheaper, and it can be argued objectively they are better cars - for a discount kills them.

    It's a similar thing for the A4 - is the extra cost buying you a better car?
    That's all very well, and probably correct, but to disqualify the C5 because of its ride is something, let's say, surprising at least. And it is actually that you can buy one over there...
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    It's a similar thing for the A4 - is the extra cost buying you a better car?
    It isn't, if you get the Seat Exeo.

    As for the C5 it seems like Citroën tried to be German wihtout leaving it frenchness behind and failed at both.

    A bit like Alfa Romeo.
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  15. #30
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    Did the C5 tested have Hidromatic suspension or regular one?
    "Religious belief is the “path of least resistance”, says Boyer, while disbelief requires effort."

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