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Old 10-18-2004, 04:26 AM
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2004 F1 World Championship Ten Best Drivers & Teams

With only one race left in the 2004 F1 World Championship, I believe that now is a good time for UCP members to nominate their ten best formula one drivers and to rank the ten F1 teams in order of best to worst of 2004. I will use these lists to work out an overall ranking the ten best drivers according to UCP members and the best and worst teams according to UCP members.

I suggest that each UCP member who follows F1 rank the drivers they believe to be the top ten drivers of 2004. Rank the drivers in order and try to rank them based on their racetrack performances, not whether you like or dislike them.
Some people may wish to wait until the Brazilian Grand Prix is completed before submitting their top ten list. I'll give everyone a period of two weeks in which to submit their list. I will then work out who the top 10 drivers are based on the lists submitted by UCP members. Each time a driver is nominated by a UCP member, they will get points based on their ranking by that member. A simple points system of 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 will suffice, with the driver who earns the most points being the driver that UCP members rate as the number 1 for 2004, the driver with the second most number of points finishing 2nd, etc. If you feel that you must rate two drivers equally for, say 3rd best, then both drivers will earn 8 points.
An example of how the points system works: 4 UCP members rate Takuma Sato as 3rd best driver, 3 members rate him as 6th best, 1 member rates him as 10th best. Sato would earn 40 points from UCP members. Meanwhile, Giancarlo Fisichella is rated as best driver by 1 member, 3rd best by 2 members and 5th best by one member. Fisichella would earn 32 points.
I hope that's not too confusing. Lets get as many top ten lists in as possible in the next two weeks and then we can declare who the top ten drivers as ranked by UCP members are.
It will be interesting to see how close the UCP top 10 list is that published by the authoritive Autocourse annual at years end. (NOTE: Autocourse will exclude Ralf Schumacher from qualification for the top ten list as he did not start enough Grand Prix this year due to injury and the editors will therefore feel they cannot rate him properly. They did this in 1999 when Michael Schumacher missed a number of races through injury. I think that UCP members should feel free to rate him in their top 10 if they wish. If Ralf ends up in our top 10, we will automatically be in disagreement with Autocourse).
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Last edited by motorsportnerd; 10-18-2004 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 10-18-2004, 05:31 AM
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OK, to get things started here is my top ten list of drivers and teams. I do not feel that the result of the Brazilian Grand Prix will change my mind, so I will submit the list now. (NOTE: you cannot change your mind once you've submitted a list).

Drivers:
1. Michael Schumacher, Ferrari. Almost goes without saying. No-one, including his team-mate, got close to him this year. Michael Schumacher's driving this year was peerless, virtually fault free (Monaco and rare spins at Monza and Shanghai excepted) and mostly free of any controversy (again, Monaco excepted). Schumacher seems to have found another gear now that he says hes driving only for the love of the sport. I'd rate this as easily his best ever year in a long and successful career.
2. Rubens Barrichello, Ferrari. Barrichello had easily his best year as well, but that in itself is not the reason I rate him second. After all, Michael Schumacher ran rings around him all year. Rather, I rate Rubens second because he had to actually drive the Ferrari much harder than previous years to stay ahead of BAR and Renault. The Ferrari was not as good a package overall as the BAR or Renault, the fact that Rubens battled with Button and Alonso more often than not attests to that. Rubens worked hard for his two wins, qualified well and his season was generally mistake free.
3. Jenson Button, BAR. I found it hard to separate the next three drivers. Button gets the nod over Alonso and Raikkonen for me. Button has been stunning this year. The most consistent podium scorer after Schumacher. He's been quick in qualifying and smooth and consistent in the races. Its his consistency that makes him number three for me. Any doubts that may have lingered about Button's driving ability were put to rest with what was undoubtedly the most outstanding drive of the season at the German Grand Prix.
4. Fernando Alonso, Renault. A brilliant first half of the year let down by a lack of consistency in the second half. That lack of consistency is partly down to the Renault team dropping the ball, but I got that feeling that Fernando has lost interest a little in the last couple of races.
5.Kimi Raikkonen, McLaren. This will be controversial, as I suspect that most other UCP members will rate Kimi higher. Certainly, there is no doubt that Kimi is the most talented driver out there after Michael Schumacher. However, when faced with a car that was less than his talents, he seemed to give up too easily. In situations where Coulthard plodded along for a finish, Raikkonen seemed to lose interest and give up. Champion drivers need to make the best of bad cars and need to motivate the team. We saw Michael Schumacher do this in his first year with Ferrari during 1996 when they had a dreadful car. Raikkonen's win a Spa confirms his talent. It was one of the best drives of the year. His Silverstone drive was equally good. However, all top drivers will be faced with a bad car a some stage. Raikkonen got his bad car this year, and didn't make as much of it as Schumacher did with the 1996 Ferrari.
6. Juan Pablo Montoya, Willaims. Just as it was hard to separate 3rd to 5th, the next three drivers are also hard to split. Montoya showed his talent on occasions this year - the US Grand Prix being the most notable. (edit post Brazilain GP - his performance in the Brazilian Grand Prix was by far his best of the year) He also once again showed that it is possible to pass other drivers for position in a modern F1 car. However, even allowing for the disappointment that was this years Williams, he was rather inconsistent and too prone to dummy spits and blaming others for his mistakes. You could never call Juan boring though.
7. Mark Webber, Jaguar. A couple of brilliant drives (Bahrain and Germany the most notable) and two brilliant qualifying performances at Malaysia and Japan help Webber to my number seven spot. His performances in a car not worthy of his talents are outstanding. Kimi Raikkonen would do well to note Mark's professionalism when faced with a less than perfect car. Mark didn't spit the dummy, rather he did his best to motivate the Jaguar team to do better. A couple of mistakes, particularly at Spa (and Brazil), spoilt his year a little, but there is no doubt that he'll be up there with Williams next year.
8. Jarno Trulli, Renault. His Monaco and Japan drives show he has what it takes. Also, he was hardly embarrased by having Alonso as his team-mate. Trulli kept Alonso honest, and in doing so improved his own stock. Let down once again this year by falling asleep on the job. Giving up a certain podium to Rubens at France was his worst error of the year by far.
9. Takuma Sato, BAR. A top drive in Bahrain, and some brilliant overtaking manoeuvres put Sato in my top ten. He's a little inconsistent still, makes silly errors (not pulling over safely at Monaco was the worst) and seemingly is a little hard on his engines. But there is no doubting his speed, talent or courage.
10. Giancarlo Fisichella, Sauber. Generally showed up the highly rated Massa, scored some solid points finishes for Sauber and qualified well, which is enough to put him in the top 10 ahead of Heidfield and Massa. A consistent, solid years work, which earned him the Renault drive for next year.

Teams:
1. Ferrari. I do not feel that Ferrari had the best car during the year - that honour goes to BAR and Renault. Ferrari did, however, have the best tyres and that brilliant strategist Ross Brawn. Also, both drivers were at the top of their game, and yet again, everything clicked into place. Goes to show that the best team and the best drivers don't necessarily need the best chassis to win the championship.
2. BAR. The biggest improver of the year by far. This year BAR had probably the best car in the field. They were let down a little by the Michelin tyres. But a combination of Dave Richards, Jenson Button and Takuma Sato brought results. Let down a little by the messy saga involving Button, but it is to the credit of both the team and the driver that they continued to score results.
3. Renault. Along with the BAR, probably the best car out there. Also let down by the Michelins. The Renaults had a very sweet chassis and the launch control could be guaranteed to gain them positions of the start. A brilliant Monaco result was the reward. However, the spat between Briatore and Trulli helped the team lose track a little. The fight for second could have been much closer.
4= Williams. A disappointment. Should've been fighting for the constructors title. The 04 Williams never seemed to work properly and strategic errors such as the one which cost the team a podium in Canada and a certain second in the US about sums up their year. And two unhappy drivers didn't help.
4= McLaren. Also a disappointment. The car never worked properly. The team didn't seem the cohesive unit of past years. The drivers were often unhappy. A fine win at Spa is a reward for Raikkonen's talent, but the year should have had so much more.
6 Sauber. A solid, consistent year, with a points haul that gains them sixth in the constructors title. Should continue this with Villenueve next year.
7. Jaguar. Rated ahead of Toyota, because they achieved more with less. It'll be sad to see them go, but unless the team's buyer brings a lot more funds, it will remain a team which will struggle to keep talented drivers like Webber.
8. Jordan. The car seemed quick at times, but they desperately needed money to develop it.
9. Minardi. A well deserved 8th in the US Grand Prix is a fine reward for the effort put in on a very small budget.
10. Toyota. Should have achieved more with the money they had. Poor effort. I'm rating them last just because they didn't achieve as much as Jaguar and barely more than Jordan or Minardi for their years work despite a budget estimated to rival that of Ferraris.

That's my list, and my reasons for the ratings. Now lets see everyone elses and we'll then tally it all up for an overall top 10 drivers and teams list.
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Last edited by motorsportnerd; 10-24-2004 at 07:53 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2004, 06:57 AM
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Great stuff, you made good points, which I can't really disagree with.
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Old 10-18-2004, 01:08 PM
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Drivers:
1.Michael Schumacher
2.Jenson Button
3.Rubens Barichello
4.Kimi Raikkonen
5.Fernando Alonso
6.Juan Pablo Montoya
7.Giancarlo Fisichella
8.Jarno Trulli
9.Mark Webber
10.Takuma Sato

Constructors:
1.Ferrari(best car . best everything)
2.BAR
3.Renault
4.McLareb
5.Williams
6.Sauber
7.Jaguar
8.Toyota
9.Jordan
10.Minardi

theoretically .. the WDC and WCC classification . give a very accuarate placement ..
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:07 PM
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Drivers:
1. M.Schumacher (c'mon u gotta give the guy a credit for his hard work )
2. R. Barrichello (i reckon he's a really good driver, shouldnt be in michael's shadow)
3. J. Button (9 podiums or more this year (i think), he's a really talented driver)
4. K. Raikkonen (he could've get more podium places this year if the car was perfect)
5. F. Alonso (very capable)
6. J.P. Montoya (a few good drive this year, i hate his personality though)
7. T. Sato (very talented, Japan's best f1 driver so far!)
8. M. Webber (no podium, but he did a few good drive this year)
9. J. Trulli (a few good drive this year, and dont forget his victory in monaco! but bad driving in France )
10. D. Coulthard (good driver, he made quite a few points for the team)

Team:
1. Ferrari
2. BAR Honda
3. Renault
4. Mclaren Mercedes
5. BMW Williams (wait till next year... it'll be on top of the list )
6. Jaguar
7. Sauber Petronas
8. Toyota
9. Jordan
10. Minardi Cosworth
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2004, 12:59 AM
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1. Michael Schumacher
=2. Jenson Button
=2. Rubens Barichello
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Giancarlo Fisichella
6. Ralf Schumacher
7. Mark Webber
8. David Coulthard
9. Jarno Trulli
10. Juan Pablo Montoya

1. Ferrari
2. BAR
3. McLaren
4. Renault
5. Williams
6. Sauber
7. Jaguar
8. Jordan
9. Toyota
10. Minardi
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Old 10-22-2004, 09:23 AM
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1. Michael Schumacher
2. Rubens Barichello
3. Jenson Button
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Mark Webber
7. Ralf Schumacher
8. David Coulthard
9. Juan Pablo Montoya
10. Giancarlo Fisichella

1. Ferrari
2. Mc Laren
3. BAR
4. Williams
5. Renault
6. sauber
7. jordan
8. Toyota
9. Jaguar
10. Minardi
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Old 10-22-2004, 10:56 AM
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hmmm lets see...

Drivers:
1. M. Schumacher
2. R. Barrichello
3. J. Button
4. K. Raikkonen
5. F. Alonso
6. J. Trulli
7. J.P. Montoya
8. R. Schumacher
9. T. Sato
10. G. Fisichella

Teams:
1. Ferrari
2. BAR
3. Renault
4.Williams
5. McLaren
6. Sauber
7. Jaguar
8. Jordan
9. Toyota
10. Minardi
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Old 10-22-2004, 06:08 PM
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I won't get into the merrit of discussing Kimi's 5th place in your ratings, but to say he gave up is terribly shortsighted.

He got pissed off every single time his car broke, to the point where he pushed a marshall away at Sepang and blew up an engine on purpose at Bahrain instead of pushing the kill button. He beat Coulthard in qualifying by 11-6, and that's because his engine blew up during practice sessions twice and there were also 2 other qualifying sessions in which he had the worse of the variable conditions. Still, he was the McLaren driver who won, scored a pole, got the team's fastest lap and finished on the podium.

And comparing Kimi's season to Schumacher in 1996 is absurd. For beginniers, there was no tyre war in 1996. And Ferrari had the second best car in 1996 while McLaren has had its hands full with Williams, BAR, Renault and poor reliability during most of the season.

While I'm at it, Alonso was beaten by Trulli while they raced together, and yet he's 4th on your ratings while Trulli is 8th...
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Old 10-24-2004, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homem de Gelo
And comparing Kimi's season to Schumacher in 1996 is absurd. For beginniers, there was no tyre war in 1996. And Ferrari had the second best car in 1996 while McLaren has had its hands full with Williams, BAR, Renault and poor reliability during most of the season.

While I'm at it, Alonso was beaten by Trulli while they raced together, and yet he's 4th on your ratings while Trulli is 8th...

They're my opinions only, I don't expect anyone to agree. How about you give us your list and your opinions on the driver's performances?
Though I don't think Ferrari had the second best car in 1996 - Williams was obviously first that year, Benneton was probably second. Ferrari suffered reliability that was as appalling that year as McLaren's this year. I think it was Schumacher that was the factor at Ferrari. Without him, they wouldn't have won any races that year. Without Raikkonen, McLaren wouldn't have won any this year. Note that I did say Raikkonen is the second best driver in the field in terms of talent. I just feel that his attitude to the shocking year he had was in contrast to his own team mate (who didn't get as upset), or Schumacher's attitude in 1996 or, for that matter, Senna's attitude in 1993 (when he battled a car that was less than the best).
As for your comparing Raikkonen with Coulthard, note that I didn't rate Coulthard in my top 10. I'll stand by my views.

Now, where's your list? Put it up so that we can get an overall UCP ranking of the drivers for 2004.
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Last edited by motorsportnerd; 10-24-2004 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 10-24-2004, 07:51 PM
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OK guys, the season is now over. Get your lists in. There were notable drives by Raikkonen and Montoya in Brazil. M. Schumacher put in one of his more average performances. Trulli did brilliantly in qualifying. And Webber probably shouldn't have stuck his nose up the inside of his team-mate (1st rule of racing - beat your team-mate. 2nd rule - don't crash into him...Webber broke rule 2 while trying to keep rule 1).

I'll give everyone until Monday 1 November, then I'll work out the overall UCP rankings.
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:38 AM
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Interesting you brought 1996 up, I posted this yesterday at atlasf1.com.

Quote:
Looking it up I found McLaren with 12 DNFs this year (KR 8 + DC4) while Ferrari had 16 (not 23) in '96 (MS 6 + EI 10). At the same time, the dominating team had 2 DNFs in 2004 and 8 in 1996, which means there were much more leftovers and spoiled opportunites to be picked up by the inferior cars in 1996.

There's another way to look at the reliability records. In 2004, Raikkonen completed 67% of the possible laps and Schumacher 71% in 1996. The difference seems small, but then you must consider that the only other full time driver to have completed less laps than Raikkonen was Bruni. In 1996, Schumacher completed more laps than 10 of the full time drivers. The 1996 champion completed less that 83% of the possible laps, hich would leave him behind 10 drivers this year. The 2004 champion would have completed more laps than anyone else in 1996 and by a safe margin.

I really don't think comparing Schumacher + Ferrari in 1996 against KR + McLaren in 2004 is adequate. The reliability records for the entire grid were very different in both seasons and so was the competition faced by Schumacher in one year and Raikkonen in the other.
Coulthard is the closest standard by which Raikkonen can be compared, they were teammates and theoretically had the same car and conditions, even if he is or not ammong your top ten.

My ratings are:

01 - Schumacher - yet another record breaking season in a fantastic car, but clearly dropped the ball after Hungaroring. He was outscored by Barrichello in the last 3rd of the season, and I think he was better in 2002.

02 - Raikkonen - nobody suffered so badly like he did from unreliability. The only full time driver to complete less laps than him was Bruni in a Minardi. He was the only driver to not get involved in collisions, spins during the races and terrible qualifying mistakes, and he was still capable of demonstrating fantastic speed once the car allowed him. And he did beat his teammate, who had the same car, very convincingly, even lapping him at the last race of the season.

03 - Button - a huge improvement from any of his previous seasons. Commited very few mistakes and showed speed and racecraft. Hockenheim was a fantastic race for him, by all standards.

04 - Fisichella - Fast, consistent and mature. It was no coincidence that top teams were coveting him before he signed with Renault for 2005. The highlight of his seaosn was his race at Silverstone.

05 - Barrichello - great in the end of the season, shamely beaten by Schumacher in the begining. He has the speed and but he still lacks the consistency to deliver 100% often enough to actually be a challenge to Schumacher and fight for the title.

06 - Alonso - was beaten by Trulli by a small margin, fair and square, and that doesn't look good at all. However, he recovered and drove fantastic races at China, Japan and Brazil, keeping drivers with faster cars behind him.

07 - Trulli - outscored Alonso and won at Monaco. It was his best season ever, but he still looked beter on Saturday than on Sunday.

08 - Webber - was his usual self, but the Jaguar was simply disappointing.

09 - Montoya - anonymous in some races, a strong character in others. He still commited his usual mistakes and got involved in collisions more often than he should. He should better get rid of his bad habbits if he wishes to beat Raikkonen in 2005. Raikkonen is no Ralf. A great win in the last race of the season showed us there is still hope.

10 - Massa - people expected countless spins and error, yet he was a challneg to Fisichella on occasion and scored points quite often. He was also great in qualifying sessions at China and Brazil.

11 - Heidfeld - deserves an honerable mention. The Jordan sucks completely.
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Old 10-27-2004, 07:42 PM
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I was almost regretting putting Montoya in 6th after Brazil, but Homem de Gelo, you're harder on him than I was...
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Old 10-27-2004, 07:42 PM
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To all the others out there - get your lists in. Matra? Henk? Come on guys...
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Last edited by motorsportnerd; 10-27-2004 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 10-27-2004, 07:55 PM
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Oh, well, the ones who were the best for me were Schumacher, Raikkonen, Button and Fisichella. There's very little between the rest of them. Montoya's only in 9th because it took me long to remember him.
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