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Thread: Shock: Camry has decent dynamics according to Wheels mag

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by syko
    The mazda6, accord liberty are good family cars but they are medium sized family cars, they have less weight and power driving the wheels. Different to the falcon, 380, and ve. Blueys original question remark was regarding long trips. would you rather a rwd or fwd for towing.
    Yes - towing. I agree there.
    On long trips, however, its irrelevant which end does the driving. And I can't think of anything other towing for which a RWD is actually "needed" or where it is superior in these sorts of cars.
    I've driven both the 380 and the Falcon BA - both the base ES/XT and sporty VRX/XR6 version of each car. The BA is the overall better, more rounded car. However, the fact it is RWD has nothing to do with it. Where the base models are concerned, it is the Falcon's extra refinement and integrety which makes it the better car. There's little or no difference in dynamics between the two. With the VRX/XR6, dynamics come into play - mainly I think because the XR6 has larger, wider, grippier tyres. Also - the 380 has terrible visibility issues.
    So, RWD has nothing to do with the reason I think its better than the 380.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemotorsport
    what he probably means is that good family cars that are rwd are good to do burnouts and drifting in
    How many people spend mid $30K mark to do burnouts? Only idiots and those with low IQ and immaturity.
    If you want to do burnouts go buy a $2K banger, find a deserted paddock and don't endanger other road users.
    Besides the ESP system on the VE will make it harder to do burnouts anyway.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  3. #48
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    Your Camry might have the Avalon's engine it's 140kw, Was a goer to got to about 6000rpm pulled hard in the higher revs, If you floored it it would do a little wheelie but sitting there we just couldn't get it to turn maybe the brakes were to good for stand stills
    "Just a matter of time i suppose"

    "The elevator is broke, So why don't you test it out"

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  4. #49
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    I havent tried anything like that - not my car, and i'd probably break something.
    I am the Stig

  5. #50
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    The same article makes mention of the fact that the Aurion will have a 205kW (not 190kW as previously thought) 3.5 litre V6 and a six-speed auto transmission as standard. There's also suggestions (as mentioned in the VE thread) that it will achieve economy figures of less then 10L/100kms.
    So, lets get this straight: the Aurion has more power than the VE, a six-speed auto as standard therefore setting the technology pace, and is likely to be much lighter and way more economical.
    I highly boubt the Aurion could achieve 205kw whilst being more economical than the Camry. Remember the Camry only has 117kw and 9.9L/100km.

    Prior to release Toyota management made a big hoopla about the Camrys fuel effeciency. Lo and behold the Camry was actually the worst mid sized sedan in terms of fuel economy.

    With that much power in a FWD hope Toyota made sure to look into torque steer.


    Old versus new Camry

    -Camry owners will be instantly familiar with the new model. After 10 million Camry sales worldwide, you'd reckon Toyota would have it sorted by now.

    -But the jury is out on the large, transparent white panel in the middle of the dashboard, which surrounds the radio display screen. Said to be inspired by Apple computers, it looks quite smart during the day - but at night on dark roads, it's too bright and there's no dimmer switch........It's like driving around with the interior light on - a serious distraction.

    -Speaking of light, the new projector-style low-beam headlights are an improvement but high-beam performance has diminished - the Camry's funky new light design means the high-beam lamp has a smaller reflector. Drivers who travel on country roads at night will notice the newer version doesn't throw light as far down the road as the previous model. Form overruled function.

    -Inside, there's more room compared with the old car, but the boot is a little smaller. Another blot: the boot lid hinges still intrude into luggage space when it is closed (the newer multi-link hinge systems, such as those in the Ford Falcon and new Holden Commodore, are more space-efficient).

    -Another oddity is that a pair of neat gas struts prop up the bonnet but an agricultural-looking tensioner keeps the boot lid aloft. Given customers are more likely to open the boot than the bonnet, perhaps Toyota spent the money on the wrong end of the car.

  6. #51
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    How many people spend mid $30K mark to do burnouts? Only idiots and those with low IQ and immaturity.
    If you want to do burnouts go buy a $2K banger, find a deserted paddock and don't endanger other road users.
    Besides the ESP system on the VE will make it harder to do burnouts anyway.
    I recently had been involved in an accident. Crash a FWD car into a gutter at 20km/h with angled wheels and see whether it’s a right off. Even at that speed and type of accident many FWD cars would not be worth repairing.

    If I had been driving my commodore the damage and the repair bill would not be that excessive.........luck for comprehensive.

    Imagine fleet sales, Farmers and families that regularly use their cars for interstate or bush travel. I definitely would not trust a FWD car to do those types of duties.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by monaroCountry
    I highly boubt the Aurion could achieve 205kw whilst being more economical than the Camry. Remember the Camry only has 117kw and 9.9L/100km.

    Prior to release Toyota management made a big hoopla about the Camrys fuel effeciency. Lo and behold the Camry was actually the worst mid sized sedan in terms of fuel economy.

    With that much power in a FWD hope Toyota made sure to look into torque steer.
    Yeah - the fuel economy figures may be a deliberately started rumour to take some limelight away from the VE. We'll know in November. Doubt the Aurion would be worse then the VE for economy though. Its likely to be lighter for a start and has the 6-speed auto v the 4-speed in the VE.
    As for torque steer - its unlikely to be an issue.
    Its not an issue in the Mits 380 after all. With modern computer engineered suspension and tuning systems, with traction control and ESP systems, torque steer is not the issue it used to be. We can be certain that Aurion will match the VE and have standard ESP. Likely to have standard traction control too. The whole "torque steer" and "FWD" stigma is a thing mostly of the past. Go drive a 380 if you don't believe me and don't imagine for one minute that the Aurion won't be better.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by monaroCountry
    I recently had been involved in an accident. Crash a FWD car into a gutter at 20km/h with angled wheels and see whether it’s a right off. Even at that speed and type of accident many FWD cars would not be worth repairing.

    If I had been driving my commodore the damage and the repair bill would not be that excessive.........luck for comprehensive.

    Imagine fleet sales, Farmers and families that regularly use their cars for interstate or bush travel. I definitely would not trust a FWD car to do those types of duties.
    First issue - I've driven a FWD car into a gutter by accident - an old Telstar. No dramas.
    I've had a 4WD reverse into another FWD car I drove - a Mondeo. Again, shattered plastic bumper. No other dramas.
    Depends more on the solidity of the front structure I would think. Repair costs will be higher, but there's more to it than which end does the driving.
    Durability - Toyota Camry's are good for similar distances to Falcons and Commodores and will do it with less fuss along the way. If I was to buy a car with 400,000km plus on it I'd buy the Camry way before the Commodore or Falcon. A properly design FWD car can be extremely durable.
    As for outback use - you have a point. But even RWD isn't particularly desirable there. I remember a number of Wheels magazine drives though the outback with the large Aussie cars - FWD Magnas, Avalons and Camrys and RWD Commodores and Falcons. All suffered there share of underbody damage and the RWD cars weren't much better.
    Ride height is surely more an issue and in that sort of terrain a Toyota Landcruiser or similar is a better choice than any Commodore/Falcon/Camry/380, etc, anyway.
    Must ask if you've driven a good FWD car recently? A Mazda6, an Accord Euro or even a Mits 380? You may be surprised how good a well designed FWD car can drive.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fpv_gtho
    I havent tried anything like that - not my car, and i'd probably break something.
    Hired cars Treat them like you wouldn't your own
    "Just a matter of time i suppose"

    "The elevator is broke, So why don't you test it out"

    "I'm not trapped in here with all of you, Your all trapped in here with me"

  10. #55
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    theres this guy in armidale nsw (yeah) that hires cars then goes to summernats and thrashes the thing in the burnout comp fully sic
    people like u dont need to be on this go to supid land where your mind is ass - toyota4ever

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorsportnerd
    Yeah - the fuel economy figures may be a deliberately started rumour to take some limelight away from the VE. We'll know in November. Doubt the Aurion would be worse then the VE for economy though. Its likely to be lighter for a start and has the 6-speed auto v the 4-speed in the VE.
    As for torque steer - its unlikely to be an issue.
    Its not an issue in the Mits 380 after all. With modern computer engineered suspension and tuning systems, with traction control and ESP systems, torque steer is not the issue it used to be. We can be certain that Aurion will match the VE and have standard ESP. Likely to have standard traction control too. The whole "torque steer" and "FWD" stigma is a thing mostly of the past. Go drive a 380 if you don't believe me and don't imagine for one minute that the Aurion won't be better.
    I'd be interested to see them try and not offer TC if ESP is standard - its basically hijacked off the TC and ABS/EBD and put in the one system when you think about it.
    Last edited by fpv_gtho; 07-28-2006 at 07:12 AM.
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  12. #57
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    With the recent stories in the media I would say the chances of ESP not being standard on the Aurion are zero. Therefore it will have TC as well. After all, Holden was forced to rethink the issue and put ESP on the base models. And we can be pretty certain that the Falcon BF2 will likely have it too.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

  13. #58
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    Quite possible. That, side airbags and the ZF seem to be what theyve got to play around with. Alot of people think they'll be putting all 3 standard across the range
    I am the Stig

  14. #59
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    If a car has TC and ABS available, and has modern engine computers, there's really no excuse not have ESP. It runs off the TC and ABS sensors and a lot of ECUs are advnaced enough to run ESP. Hell, Lotus can put ESP in the Elise/Exige if they want. And I can't see why it would really cost anymore to put it in if it it's available.
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  15. #60
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    If Ford does make side airbags, ESP and the ZF 6-speed standard on the base model, that really does make the base VE Omega look a bit sad.
    I mean, a 4-speed auto, no air conditioning and only dual airbags? Even the Berlina suffers for the 4-speed. And if you start ticking option boxes the price suffers and the value for money factor drops. Holden really needs to lift its game at the base level. Looks like all its main competitors will offer more in the base model.
    The sports and sports-luxury versions of the VE look fantastic on paper. The base models let the whole range down. I can't see Wheels awarding COTY to a car where the base model has only a 4-speed auto and dual airbags. Such a car fails against both the technology and safety criteria.
    Hence my earlier argument that the Aurion looks like a better car on paper.
    Some are saying the Aurion won't deserve COTY either. Maybe not. But I'd be a bit ashamed to see a 4-speed auto equipped Commodore awarded it - its not 2002 any more.
    Maybe we should be looking at the VW Passat for COTY - presents a fantastic argument for value, technology, safety and in how it meets the role for which it is designed.
    UCP's biggest Ford Sierra RS500 and BMW M3 E30 fan. My two favourite cars of all time.

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