Go to Ultimatecarpage.com

Go Back   Ultimatecarpage.com forums > Automotive forums > Technical forums


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2004, 06:21 PM
Doza's Avatar
Doza Doza is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Speaker Install

Attached is a diagram of my trunkspace, and here is a description and my problem. I have 2 Rockford 8"s and 2/1* Kicker Impulse 12"s that I only have room for in the trunk. Right now, they're in truck boxes, and I intend to Build a box(es) to house the speakers so they can face the front. What should I do, and what shape/how big/what orientation should the box(es) be?

*the amp that runs the 12"s had a resistor fall out and I haven't got around to saudering it back in, so it's one channel now, and I can't even bridge it to get the full power
Attached Images
File Type: jpg trunk.jpg (8.5 KB, 11 views)
__________________
Stickers add horsepower. I promise.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Matra et Alpine's Avatar
Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 27,759
nr Edinburgh, Whisky-soaked Scotland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doza
Attached is a diagram of my trunkspace, and here is a description and my problem. I have 2 Rockford 8"s and 2/1* Kicker Impulse 12"s that I only have room for in the trunk. Right now, they're in truck boxes, and I intend to Build a box(es) to house the speakers so they can face the front. What should I do, and what shape/how big/what orientation should the box(es) be?

*the amp that runs the 12"s had a resistor fall out and I haven't got around to saudering it back in, so it's one channel now, and I can't even bridge it to get the full power
Chamber design is a complex subject and I was going to suggest you search on "speaker horn design" for some of the basics on building a loaded horn cabinet. This will produce astounding bass colume AND clarity from a small volume and can be accomodated in unusual spaces. The problem is it's not easy
Anyway, I did the search myself and found that someone has done all the maths in an applet. You might want to try to use it to get you the optimum design for the speakers and space available. http://www.ishtek.com/spkrs.htm it also has a 'basics' intro page.
I've seen lots of folks stuff speakers in anywhere and then use smart electronics to make it sound reasonable. I prefer getting the design as near correct as possible and then ONLY using electronics when and if necessary. ( I used to do semi-pro live and studio recordings so I prefer 'real' sounds )
Hope it helps.
Of course, the easier approach is to go along ot the next sound-off and see what someone else has done and if you like the sound/look copy it
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-10-2004, 07:43 PM
Doza's Avatar
Doza Doza is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
Chamber design is a complex subject and I was going to suggest you search on "speaker horn design" for some of the basics on building a loaded horn cabinet. This will produce astounding bass colume AND clarity from a small volume and can be accomodated in unusual spaces. The problem is it's not easy
Anyway, I did the search myself and found that someone has done all the maths in an applet. You might want to try to use it to get you the optimum design for the speakers and space available. http://www.ishtek.com/spkrs.htm it also has a 'basics' intro page.
I've seen lots of folks stuff speakers in anywhere and then use smart electronics to make it sound reasonable. I prefer getting the design as near correct as possible and then ONLY using electronics when and if necessary. ( I used to do semi-pro live and studio recordings so I prefer 'real' sounds )
Hope it helps.
Of course, the easier approach is to go along ot the next sound-off and see what someone else has done and if you like the sound/look copy it
Thanks... I don't have much extra money to make it much better now, but plenty of wood laying around.
__________________
Stickers add horsepower. I promise.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-10-2004, 08:19 PM
Egg Nog's Avatar
Egg Nog Egg Nog is offline
The Voice of Reason
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,777
Vancouver, Canada
Send a message via MSN to Egg Nog
I remember that one of the BC MR2 club guys had what he called a "sub-bucket" Sure enough, it was a 25 litre former Ice Cream pail with a 12" (to the best of my memory) subwoofer mounted in it. It sounded pretty good, too

In any case, if you're pretty good with wood, I'd go for building a custom housing for the speakers. That's definately what I would do
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-12-2004, 06:31 PM
Doza's Avatar
Doza Doza is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg Nog
I remember that one of the BC MR2 club guys had what he called a "sub-bucket" Sure enough, it was a 25 litre former Ice Cream pail with a 12" (to the best of my memory) subwoofer mounted in it. It sounded pretty good, too

In any case, if you're pretty good with wood, I'd go for building a custom housing for the speakers. That's definately what I would do
I'm good with my hands... but all the things on the webpage Matra gave me are pretty complex... I may need an interpreter.
__________________
Stickers add horsepower. I promise.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-15-2004, 05:39 PM
crisis's Avatar
crisis crisis is offline
Space Modulator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,076
Adelaide
More is not always better. You need to find out the specs of your speaker and use the program Matra is talking about. If you want loud bass which seems obvious, try facing the speaker into the trunk area. Make sure the sound can bleed back into the cabin ie leave out rear speakers from parcel shelf or make sure their are openings to let sound back in . Loading in this way can increase the volume by 3db which is around the minimum audible. It is also the sam increase you would get from going from a 10" to a 12" driver or approximately doubling the amplifier output. Much cheaper eh?If you run all of these speakers make sure the impedence matches your amps. ie 3x 4ohm speakers in parallel will be 1ohm and will probably blow the power supply. Three 4phm speakers in series will be 12 ohm which means they will require a lot of power to drive loud. There are goo site on the net about speaker design although I would question horn loaded cabinets for car installs because of their complexity and size. No offence MAtra.
__________________
"A string is approximately nine long."
Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-15-2004, 05:41 PM
crisis's Avatar
crisis crisis is offline
Space Modulator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,076
Adelaide
We have been on this subject here as well.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...?t=1833&page=2
__________________
"A string is approximately nine long."
Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-15-2004, 06:53 PM
Matra et Alpine's Avatar
Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 27,759
nr Edinburgh, Whisky-soaked Scotland
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis
I would question horn loaded cabinets for car installs because of their complexity and size. No offence MAtra.
If you want to maximise bass then horn-loading is the way to do it.
But we're probably only looking at 3-6dB over a ported box.
Taking crisis' inputs the other way around, it may be easier to double the power of the amp and speakers than optimising a horn.
If you can think in 3D, then horns are actually quite easy.
I was 15 when I was introduced to a special horn-loaded Tannoy enclosure made out of concrete. It was amazing how much extra bass for the same input power.
A modern interpretation to hear what can be done are the little Bose radi/cd units. These have 3" drivers and a horn winding it's way around the case and it is astounding the amount of bass produced.
But, I accept that you're maths needs to be spot on to play with horn designs I just hoped that the java applet the guy had written might have made it easier.
Sorry it didn't
Why not take crisis' inputs and come up with what you think would work for you and we can gently critique it here for you.
Cheers
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-15-2004, 07:29 PM
Doza's Avatar
Doza Doza is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
I've decided to find some way to put the eights inside the cab. That will be a while as i'm afraid to tear my car apart and not talent with fiberglass.
The eights hit very exceptionally and they're only on 50 watts each. I'm not out to win competitions.... I want a clean and reasonably loud sound that hits pretty well, and so far, I'm close to that. What I do is drop my back seat down so the speakers hit out. I'm going to figure out how to put the sixes back on next weekend when I have the time for it.
__________________
Stickers add horsepower. I promise.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-15-2004, 10:46 PM
crisis's Avatar
crisis crisis is offline
Space Modulator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,076
Adelaide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
If you want to maximise bass then horn-loading is the way to do it.
But we're probably only looking at 3-6dB over a ported box.
Taking crisis' inputs the other way around, it may be easier to double the power of the amp and speakers than optimising a horn.
If you can think in 3D, then horns are actually quite easy.
I was 15 when I was introduced to a special horn-loaded Tannoy enclosure made out of concrete. It was amazing how much extra bass for the same input power.
A modern interpretation to hear what can be done are the little Bose radi/cd units. These have 3" drivers and a horn winding it's way around the case and it is astounding the amount of bass produced.
But, I accept that you're maths needs to be spot on to play with horn designs I just hoped that the java applet the guy had written might have made it easier.
Sorry it didn't
Why not take crisis' inputs and come up with what you think would work for you and we can gently critique it here for you.
Cheers
Peter
Horn loading increases efficeincy at all levels as you rightly point out. I still think they would have to be fairly large. If you want a similar effect you could try a transmission line set up but again they are very complicated and if they are not perfect, they do not work.
__________________
"A string is approximately nine long."
Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:21 AM.

 

1998 - 2014 Ultimatecarpage.com