Microsoft losses !!

[Matra et Alpine]

According to the news coverage ( it was SKy tho' ) of hte XBox launch in the UK, Microsoft continue to LOSE $500 MILLION PER YEAR on the platform !!

So in the console v PC discussions all you console owners better be nice coz it's us PC owners who are actually keeping it alive for you

[furious_fiero]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

So in the console v PC discussions all you console owners better be nice coz it's us PC owners who are actually keeping it alive for you

Im almost positive that everyone who owns an Xbox 360 also owns a computer...so the whole "PC owners who are actually keeping it alive for you"...is bullshit. A 360 is just thought of as an add on to my computer.

PS-shut up!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by furious_fiero

Im almost positive that everyone who owns an Xbox 360 also owns a computer...so the whole "PC owners who are actually keeping it alive for you"...is bullshit. A 360 is just thought of as an add on to my computer.

PS-shut up!

you are showing excessive numptiness tonight.

Read the threads on the PC v console discussions and you may get your perceived IQ level up to double digits

See that thing called a SMILEY, it indicates somethign is said in jest.

See this one -- -- jsut for you !!


"360 add on to computer" -- wtf ?? Where did you dream that one up ???
Microsof tplan to make the Xbox family the centre of the home media entertainment, NOT the personal computer

[Pando]

Yes, Billy has been losing a lot of money on the Xbox. But they've achieved a nice market share in the US and Europe and made a brand for themselves in a totally new business. I also like the fact that Microsoft isn't really making money on the consoles. You can look at it from another perspective and state that we're getting more for our buck since we don't have to pay to put money in their pocket. Since the competition is so intense they cannot raise the prices either, so they either have to keep selling at a too low price (for them) or fold and the customers wins! God I sometimes love the market economy.

[Pando]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Microsof tplan to make the Xbox family the centre of the home media entertainment, NOT the personal computer

Yes, because they're all out of ideas when it comes to computers. There is still room to expand on the console market.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Pando

Yes, Billy has been losing a lot of money on the Xbox. But they've achieved a nice market share in the US and Europe and made a brand for themselves in a totally new business.

One fo the greats of the computer industry returned to the board of the company to tell his succesor that if he EVER heard anyone say "winning market share" then he woudl personally remove them from the company -- Dave Pakcard of HP !! PROFIT is what keeps a company going and cashflow in the short term.

I also like the fact that Microsoft isn't really making money on the consoles. You can look at it from another perspective and state that we're getting more for our buck since we don't have to pay to put money in their pocket.

Or that PC buyers and businesses are beign TAXED to keep the prices artificially low to be able to compete with Sony who dont' ahve that big buffer.

Since the competition is so intense they cannot raise the prices either, so they either have to keep selling at a too low price (for them) or fold and the customers wins! God I sometimes love the market economy.

But here it is being skewed and that is usually frowned on by shareholders and governments. It's the sign of a monopoly, but he manages nearly every time to avoid that sanction

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Pando

Yes, because they're all out of ideas when it comes to computers. There is still room to expand on the console market.

Not sure I'm following.

The Xbox is just taking the PC technology and making it less capable ( no public interfaces/busses for h/w designers ) and driving the cost down by not changing it for 5 years. The only "expansion" is in sales not technology.

All out of ideas ? Well there can't be many HUGE LEAPS, but frankly they all happened 20 years ago anyway, it's just cheaper now But Microsoft are still innovating with Windows ( by "borrowing" from Unix technology )

[Pando]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

One fo the greats of the computer industry returned to the board of the company to tell his succesor that if he EVER heard anyone say "winning market share" then he woudl personally remove them from the company -- Dave Pakcard of HP !! PROFIT is what keeps a company going and cashflow in the short term.

I know, but from what I've heard Billy knew he'd lose money when he got into the console industry and still did. Why? I don't know. My point was is that it's easier for Microsoft to cut their expences and perhaps even make some profit in the future now that they're "familiar with the market".

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Or that PC buyers and businesses are beign TAXED to keep the prices artificially low to be able to compete with Sony who dont' ahve that big buffer.

But here it is being skewed and that is usually frowned on by shareholders and governments. It's the sign of a monopoly, but he manages nearly every time to avoid that sanction

Someone always have to pay. I guess this time it's the idiots buying Microsoft software for hundreds of dollars a piece. Artificially low prices sucks for many but not for the customers when speaking short term.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Not sure I'm following.

The Xbox is just taking the PC technology and making it less capable ( no public interfaces/busses for h/w designers ) and driving the cost down by not changing it for 5 years. The only "expansion" is in sales not technology.

Less capable but more user friendly = reaches a wider audience. The wide public don't need to keep up with the newest technology when it's fresh and expensive if you can use yesterdays tech for a fraction of the price.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

All out of ideas ? Well there can't be many HUGE LEAPS, but frankly they all happened 20 years ago anyway, it's just cheaper now But Microsoft are still innovating with Windows ( by "borrowing" from Unix technology )

Saying there won't be any huge leaps anymore is thinking as smart as the patent office boss who said everything worth inventing has already been invented... and this happend in the year 1900! What I was predicting is that Microsoft is already past its prime when it comes to computers, people have been fed up with them for years and are exploring other options more and more. They still keep innovating as you said (by "borrowing" ) but I presume money could be made by taking these innovations from the computer that has already got "everything" and putting them in a console for the everyday-Joe. The first Playstation was one of the first with this, when you for the first(?) time could do more than just play on your console, you could listen to CD's (sounds amazing nowdays doesn't it). When I was concidering which last gen console to buy I excluded the Game Cube for the simple reason it didn't play DVD's. I think there will be further development on this making the console "the centre of the home media entertainment", more user friendly and cool than the nerdy and seemingly complicated PC.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Pando

I Saying there won't be any huge leaps anymore is thinking as smart as the patent office boss who said everything worth inventing has already been invented... and this happend in the year 1900! What I was predicting is that Microsoft is already past its prime when it comes to computers, people have been fed up with them for years and are exploring other options more and more.

Thre still isn't a complete package for LINUX that matches the integration of MS. Which is why the EU told MS to split the browser and WMP OUT of the OS
In terms of computer use, it's been one of the drivers to PREVENT patent applications as they are merely fencing off areas already implemetned in some way and applying it in new areas. The craziness fo the Softwarea patentn industry means you get away with it. ( My patents aren't "innovative" but ARE commercially important to block others trying to do the same !! )
Pretty much everything HAS been desribed and researched, just not implemented. For example LOTS is made of Java and modern object orientation and yet Algol set the ground rules for it all back in the 70 !!!

They still keep innovating as you said (by "borrowing" ) but I presume money could be made by taking these innovations from the computer that has already got "everything" and putting them in a console for the everyday-Joe. The first Playstation was one of the first with this, when you for the first(?) time could do more than just play on your console, you could listen to CD's (sounds amazing nowdays doesn't it). When I was concidering which last gen console to buy I excluded the Game Cube for the simple reason it didn't play DVD's. I think there will be further development on this making the console "the centre of the home media entertainment", more user friendly and cool than the nerdy and seemingly complicated PC.

Yeah agreed, getting it into the hands of users at low cost.
Sinclair and others pre-dated the Playstation and even Sony were there earlier with the Nintendo/Sony "Playstation" and their custom games.media OS. And remember Windows is over 15 years old

[SLoppYJeeP]

If the Xbox 360 is any thing like the original Xbox, and im sure it is, then this loss is propobly intential. Microsoft sold the original Xbox, and im assuming the Xbox 360 at a loss. In other words, It costs them more to produce it then the $500 they charge for it. This is understadable, as a computer with the same features and speed would cost much much more. The point is that once you have the system, you will by games. These games cost only a couple of cents for microsoft to produce, but they sell them for over $60. This is a huge profit margin. So as more games are released and are purchases, this loss will turn into a huge profit.

[syko]

Originally Posted by SLoppYJeeP

These games cost only a couple of cents for microsoft to produce, but they sell them for over $60.

to manafacture yes but the development costs run into the millions

[NuclearCrap]

Originally Posted by furious_fiero

...so the whole "PC owners who are actually keeping it alive for you"...is bullshit.
PS-shut up!

Calm, calm, Matra is just stating his perspective on these systems, so there's no need to offend.

Originally Posted by Pando

My point was is that it's easier for Microsoft to cut their expences and perhaps even make some profit in the future now that they're "familiar with the market".

The PS3 is gonna stop X360's future.

Consoles and PCs all have their own advantages over each other, so there's no point of arguing which is better when it's all about experience. I say PC is better IMO. The thing about X360 is the small improvements MS made, it really didn't improve much. Consoles are basically PCs with everything shrinked, but they can never be as good as PCs due to lack of upgrading over short periods of time. Consoles evolve basically because PCs are getting better and better, everything in a console is PC-based with minimal sizes, and of course the number of feature shrinks too.

Originally Posted by SLoppYJeeP

If the Xbox 360 is any thing like the original Xbox, and im sure it is, then this loss is propobly intential. Microsoft sold the original Xbox, and im assuming the Xbox 360 at a loss. In other words, It costs them more to produce it then the $500 they charge for it. This is understadable, as a computer with the same features and speed would cost much much more. The point is that once you have the system, you will by games. These games cost only a couple of cents for microsoft to produce, but they sell them for over $60. This is a huge profit margin. So as more games are released and are purchases, this loss will turn into a huge profit.

Most of the games often has PC version. Of course PCs cost more, but I wouldn't mind the price if I really like it and able to afford it.

I knew X360 wouldn't make as much profit as MS expected when PS3 is coming very soon. MS's "Halo3 on PS3 launch" strategy will not work because no one will take X360 over PS3 on that day just for one game, especially PS3's got a bunch of more intense FPS games. There's no better than playing with keyboard and mouse when it comes to FPS.

[Pando]

Originally Posted by NuclearCrap

The PS3 is gonna stop X360's future.

Well that depends on a bunch of factors. Mainly if Sony can get the price down, if the PS3 costs twice as much but doesn't offer a significant performance difference it's going to affect sales. Also you never know how the customers behave, a good example is the last gen consoles; the Xbox was superior and even cheaper, but fanboys kept the PS2 alive. "Playstation" was synonomous for "console" so everyone without a clue went for that. We just have to see how it goes for the 360. By the way with the Microsoft console-future I didn't mean the 360 per se, but in general. If the 360 gets owned by the PS3 I think Microsoft will react to it in some way.

Originally Posted by NuclearCrap

Consoles and PCs all have their own advantages over each other, so there's no point of arguing which is better when it's all about experience. I say PC is better IMO. The thing about X360 is the small improvements MS made, it really didn't improve much. Consoles are basically PCs with everything shrinked, but they can never be as good as PCs due to lack of upgrading over short periods of time. Consoles evolve basically because PCs are getting better and better, everything in a console is PC-based with minimal sizes, and of course the number of feature shrinks too.

We were actually talking about the difference of playing games on a computer vs on a console. A console is in no way a substitute for a computer. But the "gaming" parts could perhaps be considered in competition with each other. I prefer the PC in general to my consoles, I can go weeks without playing on them but I need my computer daily. But when it comes to gaming it's a different story.


EDIT: I'm off to buy the Xbox 360 now by the way...

[NuclearCrap]

Originally Posted by Pando

We were actually talking about the difference of playing games on a computer vs on a console. A console is in no way a substitute for a computer. But the "gaming" parts could perhaps be considered in competition with each other. I prefer the PC in general to my consoles, I can go weeks without playing on them but I need my computer daily. But when it comes to gaming it's a different story.

You pretty much rewrote what I wrote. I'm done with talking about "playing games on PC vs playing games on consoles", it really stirred up the peace in UCP. I was trying to summarize so that ppl will stop arguing and offending so much.

[Alastor]

Originally Posted by syko

to manafacture yes but the development costs run into the millions

In the context of the discussion, that only applies to the games Microsoft actually develops.