Need help please....manual or auto???

[Matra et Alpine]

You don't' need it in normal use as long as you select your gear change points properly. It will extend the life of the gearbox marginally ( and the clutch ) but it's not too important as other things will likely break by then anyway
For some cars it's more important when driving "enthusiastically" on or off the track.

Once you know how to do it and do it often it's second nature. It's no more work than breathing !! I blip the throttle on downshifts probably most of the time and it causes smiles in the family when it's in the Espace

[henk4]

Originally Posted by QBridge

What would be the steps to do that? So far I understand that you FIRST shift to neutral than press in the clutch. Press the gas pedal with the clutch pedal down and shift to lower gear. Did I get that right?

No first press the clutch, then shift to neutral, release the clutch and blip the gas, then press the clutch again and downshift. The blip of gas should be enough to synchronise the engine revs with what the lower gear requires.

[QBridge]

Originally Posted by henk4

No first press the clutch, then shift to neutral, release the clutch and blip the gas, then press the clutch again and downshift. The blip of gas should be enough to synchronise the engine revs with what the lower gear requires.

That is much better, thanks. Now that I understand it doesn't seem like a lot of work.

[hightower99]

i do not know if this has been noted but double declutching was used back in the day when race cars didn't have syncronisers which meant that the gears would get damaged if you shifted and the rpm wasn't right.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by hightower99

i do not know if this has been noted but double declutching was used back in the day when race cars didn't have syncronisers which meant that the gears would get damaged if you shifted and the rpm wasn't right.

no only racing cars, but all cars

Some racing drivers shifted gear without using the clutch at all, but just the throttle to synchronise revs.

[nota]

Many trucks today still don't have synchro transmissions

When I was driving semis with those non-synchro gearboxes, like Roadranger 13speed eg, you better not accidentally miss a shift because its virtually impossible to get it back into gear again, due to the narrow gear-band. The only way out is to stop the rig and start all over again

[henk4]

Originally Posted by nota

Many trucks today still don't have synchro transmissions

When I was driving semis with those non-synchro gearboxes, like Roadranger 13speed eg, you better not accidentally miss a shift because its virtually impossible to get it back into gear again, due to the narrow gear-band. The only way out is to stop the rig and start all over again

I had this in the Army for transport and it had non-sync. box. Getting down from 3rd to 2nd required the throttle stiff on the floor (t 2,200) revs, if you failed you had to start all over again...

[nota]

^^ Thats a beast in itself .. .. and I thought I was invulnerable when driving the semis! Sound like a very wide ratio gearbox in that thing

Heard of the 'quadbox' Mack gearbox? I've driven one - they're a 5speed with 4speed bolted behind, with 2 gearsticks and 20 non-synchro gears which often overlap, so basically a nightmare to drive. You need to be a combination of Albert Einstein & Jack Brabham to master it. Splitshifting is a two-handed task, one hand for each gearlever with your arm hooked through the steering wheel spokes to steer the bloody thing!

Can't easily find any pics of stuff I've driven so this download of a company familiar to you will have to do

(and this cute thing I found while searching)
http://enc.slq.qld.gov.au/logicroute...&REFER=results

[henk4]

Originally Posted by nota

^^ Thats a beast in itself .. .. and I thought I was invulnerable when driving the semis! Sound like a very wide ratio gearbox in that thing

the armoured car had a 5 speed with high and low gearing. So basically in terrain low gearing was engaged and on the road high gearing. Downshifting was especially critical in terrain where you would rapidly loose speed.

That Mack box sounds very complicated. Is every gear multiplied by four? That means starting in 1,1 then up to 1,2, 1,3 and 1,4 and then 2,1, 2,2 etc?

Sounds very complicated and indeed like creating overlaps, and for shifting the main 5 speeder you would indeed need a second hand as the secondary box goes back to first, or whatever the appropriate gear is.

[nota]

Originally Posted by henk4

That Mack box sounds very complicated. Is every gear multiplied by four? That means starting in 1,1 then up to 1,2, 1,3 and 1,4 and then 2,1, 2,2 etc?

Sounds very complicated and indeed like creating overlaps, and for shifting the main 5 speeder you would indeed need a second hand as the secondary box goes back to first, or whatever the appropriate gear is.

Yes every main gear x 4, every auxilary gear x 5. To clarify there's the main 5speeder, and the 4speed auxilary - which Aussies call the joey of course

If fully laden on a hill-start, you'd use 1/1 (1st main/1st joey) then 2/1, 3/1, 4/1 etc. But it gets complex after that, eg because 5/2 final-ratio is taller than 1/3, and its like this throughout the ranges with increasing overlap as you go up. You end up having to split-shift a lot, which yes requires two hands to split - and an elbow to steer. Meanwhile you're trying to remember all those various ratio-split combos, as the 4 joey ratios are not 'linear'. The shift itself on the Mack I had was a bit of a pig too (a real clunker) which only added to the misery. I could tell more of the horror ...

In my time driving trucks I found Spicer-Roadranger boxes to be a delight. No sync but a great shift - a long gearlever but just inches to shift, and so light it can literally be shifted by your little finger alone. 13speeds of sporty fun

Originally Posted by henk4

the armoured car had a 5 speed with high and low gearing. So basically in terrain low gearing was engaged and on the road high gearing. Downshifting was especially critical in terrain where you would rapidly loose speed.

I know what you mean .. another job was rural geological drilling, as precursor for new highway construction. So I drove similar to 8-ton 'TK' Bedford 4x4 as below, towing a small Volkswagen-powered drill rig (it'd go down about 160ft). IIRC about 15 ton combined, plus Landrover Series3 as scout-car. We sometimes had to bash through pretty rough country (virgin bush, creeks etc) for a truck, but the Bedford was typical Govt fleet-spec - you know, the bare minimum and no more - a 300cid petrol with only a 4speed, so very wide-ratio. Thank goodness it had low-range - and a winch!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by nota

Yes every main gear x 4, every auxilary gear x 5. To clarify there's the main 5speeder, and the 4speed auxilary - which Aussies call the joey of course

If fully laden on a hill-start, you'd use 1/1 (1st main/1st joey) then 2/1, 3/1, 4/1 etc. But it gets complex after that, eg because 5/2 final-ratio is taller than 1/3, and its like this throughout the ranges with increasing overlap as you go up. You end up having to split-shift a lot, which yes requires two hands to split - and an elbow to steer. Meanwhile you're trying to remember all those various ratio-split combos, as the 4 joey ratios are not 'linear'. The shift itself on the Mack I had was a bit of a pig too (a real clunker) which only added to the misery. I could tell more of the horror ...

In my time driving trucks I found Spicer-Roadranger boxes to be a delight. No sync but a great shift - a long gearlever but just inches to shift, and so light it can literally be shifted by your little finger alone. 13speeds of sporty fun


I know what you mean .. another job was rural geological drilling, as precursor for new highway construction. So I drove similar to 8-ton 'TK' Bedford 4x4 as below, towing a small Volkswagen-powered drill rig (it'd go down about 160ft). IIRC about 16 ton combined, plus Landrover Series3 as scout-car. We sometimes had to bash through pretty rough country (virgin bush, creeks etc) for a truck, but the Bedford was typical Govt fleet-spec - you know, the bare minimum and no more - a 300cid petrol with only a 4speed, so very wide-ratio. Thank goodness it had low-range - and a winch!

actually this biggie was my only experience with such a box (apart from Ferguson tractors, but there you start every gear from standstill ). Next came the 2CV and Renault 4 pull sticks...

[nota]

Originally Posted by henk4

Next came the 2CV and Renault 4 pull sticks...

Now you really scare me!

I've closely scrutinized 2CV shifts via TV but never in person. And owned a few aftermarket 'straight line' shifters on 3speed floorshifts, where 1st & reverse are under 3rd & 2nd respectively

Probably worst owned was '64 Studebaker Cruiser R1 (ex police) with retrofit Jaguar 'Moss" gearbox. The shifter lock-collar soon disintegrated, so the gearlever would fall out when cornering and end up lying on the passenger footwell. Also needed a 12" screwdriver (kept in glovebox) to select reverse, so 3-point turns were a real pain. When parked I used to hide the lever under the seat for 'instant anti theft'