Belt cuts hose - Duratec V6 3.0

[PerfAdv]

First indication that something was amiss; driving back from LA the A/C in our '05 Tribute quit, earlier in the city there were some squeaking sounds but I didn't think anything of it. Then in Freeway traffic (I-405) the temp gauge went into the red zone. I took the next exit and parked the car in the first parking lot. I open the hood and noticed that the coolant reservoir was empty and there were signs of dried up spray of coolant in the engine compartment. I called Mazda Roadside assistance and they towed the car to the dealership I'd requested, one that I frequent and bought this Tribute (and my MX-5 ).

Left the car at the dealer as it was already late and they couldn't immediately work on it, this was Friday night. The next day they called and gave me a preliminary diagnosis of what happened. Apparently the accessory belt came in contact with one of the radiator hoses and sliced through it. They'll have to replace the damaged hose and whatever else and then test the engine to see if it was damaged when it overheated.

I haven't gone back to the dealer so I could see exactly how a radiator hose could have moved into the path of a belt, which makes for a perfect "saw" to cut through hoses...

I remember, one of my first posts here, made back in late '04 was about Ford's 3.0 Duratec, asking if anyone had any experience with it... This is my first bad experience with this vehicle until now. It'd served almost 2 years and 25k miles without even as much as a hiccup. This may have been a freak accident in the engine bay or it may simply just be bad engineering/packaging. Either way, I am not going to keep this car outside of it 4/50K mile factory warranty.

[Matra et Alpine]

If a belt breaks then it's perfectly feasible for the inertia to damage a hose .... "slice through it" has created a picture of a perrfect saw cut, I doubt that. But enought ot lose coolant, easy for sure

Of course as it breaks and shoots off at whatever tangent it choses it can travel a fair distance before striking

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

If a belt breaks then it's perfectly feasible for the inertia to damage a hose .... "slice through it" has created a picture of a perrfect saw cut, I doubt that. But enought ot lose coolant, easy for sure

Of course as it breaks and shoots off at whatever tangent it choses it can travel a fair distance before striking

Right, a projectile belt impacting the hose makes much more sense but they said the belt cut through the hose. Making me picture the hose being cut through as if with a running belt...

It's the long weekend here so Tuesday I'll get a chance to see for myself. Hopefully they wouldn't have thrown the damaged hose as I'd like to see how it's damaged.

[Quiggs]

Are you not going to keep it because of this incident alone? Or are there other reasons for it? It sounds to me like this may be an isolated incident, and you said yourself you haven't had any problems with it before now.

[PerfAdv]

Although an isolated incident but I've never had such things happen with anything other than with domestic cars. Maybe it's just that we've bad luck with them but only American cars have we had issues with. The others were a 2000 Ford Focus and my father's 70's 4-door sedan, a Dodge Aspen. The Focus, I bought in '99, one of the first sold. That may be my fault as it was the first production run for the Focus. The Aspen was also bought new the first production year for the model. Maybe that's been the issue, still that's never affected first production cars from Acura I've had, for example.

I'm afraid that the Tribute's Ford drivetrain with become an issue as the car ages. Especially now that possibly the Heads were warped when it overheated. We'll see how it runs now...I still have warranty so it isn't that critical just yet.

[nota]

Obviously the belt stayed on the pulley because the motor was still running, so what caused/allowed the belt to come into contact with the hose a 'soft' engine mount perhaps?

[Quiggs]

The car wouldn't necessarily stall out immediately if only the accessory belt came off. If the timing belt had broken or slipped, he'd possibly be looking at bent valves and/or rods. But they're different belts.

[nota]

Originally Posted by Quiggs

The car wouldn't necessarily stall out immediately if only the accessory belt came off. But they're different belts.

OK and thanks for that Quiggs. I've never seen a Duratec and assumed it to have one of those do-everything serpentine belts

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by nota

OK and thanks for that Quiggs. I've never seen a Duratec and assumed it to have one of those do-everything serpentine belts

Nobody makes the same belt drive the valve train AND the engine ancillaries.
The serpentine ones you see are running air con, power steering, alternator and water.

[culver]

Based on my 2.5L Mondeo/Contour the Duratec has two belts. It uses a serpentine belt on the accessory side of the motor that drives the AC, power steering, and alternator. On the back side of the engine it has a small belt driven off the cam shaft that drives the water pump. The cams are driven by chains. I can not fathom how a hose could have come so far out of position to actually touch a belt. Has anyone serviced the car? It's possible the issue was caused by someone improperly servicing something. My mom lost a steering link on a Toyota Van. It turned out the problem was the alignment shop that had recently worked on the car, not a fundamental Toyota issue.
Until the root cause of the problem is known I would caution against blaming Ford. I would also say it's illogical make a claim about "domestics" based on this example. You could make a claim about Mazda (who designed the vehicle) or Ford (who designed much of the motor) but GM and Chrysler had no more to do with it than Toyota or VW.

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by culver

Based on my 2.5L Mondeo/Contour the Duratec has two belts. It uses a serpentine belt on the accessory side of the motor that drives the AC, power steering, and alternator. On the back side of the engine it has a small belt driven off the cam shaft that drives the water pump. The cams are driven by chains. I can not fathom how a hose could have come so far out of position to actually touch a belt. Has anyone serviced the car? It's possible the issue was caused by someone improperly servicing something. My mom lost a steering link on a Toyota Van. It turned out the problem was the alignment shop that had recently worked on the car, not a fundamental Toyota issue.
Until the root cause of the problem is known I would caution against blaming Ford. I would also say it's illogical make a claim about "domestics" based on this example. You could make a claim about Mazda (who designed the vehicle) or Ford (who designed much of the motor) but GM and Chrysler had no more to do with it than Toyota or VW.

My bias is solidly based in past experiences. I had a 2000 Focus that had at least five recalls. The wheel bearing weren't clamped tight enough so there was risk of one of the rear wheels falling off. The fuel rail leading to the injector wasn't sealed correctly, which could have lead to fire in the engine compartment or very bad fuel economy. Wiring harness for the trunk had to be replaced. The interior trim for the A-pillar needed to be changed per safety issue. I took the car in 3 separate times to take care of these recalls. Why can't I blame Ford? Why are you cautioning me against blaming Ford? Maybe they make the worst cars in the world...if we don't say this, how will they get it and improve???

Then, at about 28k miles the car wouldn't shift up out of first. It ended up being a defective throttle body accelerator position sensor. The entire throttle body needed to be changed as the sensor couldn't be replaced separately. I had complained several times to the dealer that the tip-in when accelerating from a standstill was a little abrupt and each time they said something like, it's within specified specs or that's a gas saving measure? Once the defective part was replaced, tip-in acceleration was smooth. Not only couldn't they figure out that something was wrong they didn't take a customer's concerns seriously.

It's not that the Focus wasn't a well designed car. I drove the Civic and the Corolla and picked the Focus because it drove better than the competition. It isn't the design, it's the implementation. The way it was put together was bad...

[PerfAdv]

Oh, I just got the Tribute back and it turns out that the radiator hose had become soft and leaned into the belt. It was fixed under warranty as the car only has ~25k miles. The mechanic tells me that there was no damage to the engine. Any car would overheat and potentially ruin its engine running without coolant but it hasn't happened to me like this before.

One problem with the American auto industry is that the cheapest bid gets the contract. So, if the radiator hose is within specified specs it's good enough, it isn't engineered to be a really good radiator hose, it built to satisfy some specification. This is one of the reasons American cars are s**t. BTW, My rental for the week was a Pontiac Grand Am. It drove nice enough but the seats were really uncomfortable and the doors were weapons, the way they swing you're fighting just to control the doors mov't.

[Quiggs]

Originally Posted by PerfAdv

One problem with the entire auto industry is that the cheapest bid gets the contract.

Fixed... It's not just the American companies. Honda and Toyota will change parts in the middle of a model year because they save $.05 a part.

[culver]

Originally Posted by PerfAdv

My bias is solidly based in past experiences. I had a 2000 Focus that had at least five recalls. The wheel bearing weren't clamped tight enough so there was risk of one of the rear wheels falling off. The fuel rail leading to the injector wasn't sealed correctly, which could have lead to fire in the engine compartment or very bad fuel economy. Wiring harness for the trunk had to be replaced. The interior trim for the A-pillar needed to be changed per safety issue. I took the car in 3 separate times to take care of these recalls. Why can't I blame Ford? Why are you cautioning me against blaming Ford? Maybe they make the worst cars in the world...if we don't say this, how will they get it and improve???

Then, at about 28k miles the car wouldn't shift up out of first. It ended up being a defective throttle body accelerator position sensor. The entire throttle body needed to be changed as the sensor couldn't be replaced separately. I had complained several times to the dealer that the tip-in when accelerating from a standstill was a little abrupt and each time they said something like, it's within specified specs or that's a gas saving measure? Once the defective part was replaced, tip-in acceleration was smooth. Not only couldn't they figure out that something was wrong they didn't take a customer's concerns seriously.

It's not that the Focus wasn't a well designed car. I drove the Civic and the Corolla and picked the Focus because it drove better than the competition. It isn't the design, it's the implementation. The way it was put together was bad...

Two points,
1. As you said, the Focus was a well designed car but Ford did have issues when they started production in the US. The first year car had a lot of recalls. Happily those issues are behind it and Consumer Reports now recommends it.

2. Again, it looks like your problems were with Ford so it's not fair to say "domestic" when you should be saying Ford. I expect that Honda will produce a reliable car. I don't expect the same thing from Mitsubishi or Isuzu just because, like Toyota, they are Japanese.

In any case it's good that the problem is fixed. I wonder what weekend the part in the first place.

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by culver

Two points,
1. As you said, the Focus was a well designed car but Ford did have issues when they started production in the US. The first year car had a lot of recalls. Happily those issues are behind it and Consumer Reports now recommends it.

2. Again, it looks like your problems were with Ford so it's not fair to say "domestic" when you should be saying Ford. I expect that Honda will produce a reliable car. I don't expect the same thing from Mitsubishi or Isuzu just because, like Toyota, they are Japanese.

In any case it's good that the problem is fixed. I wonder what weekend the part in the first place.

Looking at the new hose, now after it's been replaced, I can see that it's held away from the belts/pulleys and held in place with zip ties. It's possible that it wasn't a hose deforming but one of the zip ties coming loose. The hose in question was one of two that connect to the coolant reservoir, the longer one that runs along fender-wall and then down toward the bottom of the radiator. Meaning its a flexible hose and not designed to hold its shape and needs to be clipped or otherwise held in place. I'd estimate it's about 18' to 24"...

Old biases die hard, really this could have happened in any make of car...