What the hell is going on at Honda?

[MrKipling]

There's something seriously wrong at Brackley, and it's not Button and Barrichello - do we have any theories?

The only one I can come up with is that all these unsolvable little problems point to a fundamental chassis flaw: it seems that they came to the season with a car that was nearly there - well balanced but not quick enough - but every time they make a bit of the car quicker (if you see what I mean) it just throws the balance out of the window and the whole car goes slower.

Personally I reckon Nick Fry is a BIG problem at Honda - we seem to hear the same shite from him at the end of every race "We know what went wrong, and we're working to correct the problem" - no, if you knew what was going wrong you wouldn't be going backwards. He's got to be the most uninspiring man on the grid - just look at the rest of the team principals and you can sum them all up with a couple of strong adjectives: the passionate, fiery Briatore; the calm, young and driven Christian Horner; even Ron Dennis looks and sounds like a formidable boss. Describing Nick Fry is like trying to describe wallpaper paste: erm, quite bland, doesn't taste very nice, doesn't really 'do anything for you'.

Any thoughts?

[henk4]

I have never seen any footage of the man. Is that enough of an explanation?

[Dino Scuderia]

Honda and Toyota seem to have the same problems, lackluster drivers and mediocre chassis developement....who knows why...with their budgets they should be tops.

Goes to show F1 is a tough business, and maybe tougher than ever to to be at the front of the grid.

[matek]

But in Monaco Barichello finished in a very repectible 4th and it would have been 3rd if not for the drive through penalty,

My theory is that when Barichello came they have put so much effort into his car seeing as theyre driving styles are so different, the car set ups are also different, and theyre lacking when it comes to setting up Jensons, which shouldnt be the case. But something is worse with Jensons than BAricellos,

At the end of the race JEnson said how his car got a new front wing but as a result it threough the car off balance on his last pit stop they changed it back to the old one and the car was fine but at that point it was too late.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by matek

But in Monaco Barichello finished in a very repectible 4th and it would have been 3rd if not for the drive through penalty,

My theory is that when Barichello came they have put so much effort into his car seeing as theyre driving styles are so different, the car set ups are also different, and theyre lacking when it comes to setting up Jensons, which shouldnt be the case. But something is worse with Jensons than BAricellos,

At the end of the race JEnson said how his car got a new front wing but as a result it threough the car off balance on his last pit stop they changed it back to the old one and the car was fine but at that point it was too late.

May be Mr. Button's abilties to convey to the engineers what is wrong with the car or what could make the car go faster are not very well developed. Some drivers are very good at that, others less so.

[Daz27]

That'd be my tip, engineer-driver relationship. Like Tom Cruise in days of thunder 'I dont know what you mean when you say does it push'... Oh thats suggesting something different, sorry Jense fans.

Who is going to fall on their sword at Honda chassis HQ when Aguri's SA06 goes faster...

[dimlight]

Originally Posted by Daz27

That'd be my tip, engineer-driver relationship. Like Tom Cruise in days of thunder 'I dont know what you mean when you say does it push'... Oh thats suggesting something different, sorry Jense fans.

Who is going to fall on their sword at Honda chassis HQ when Aguri's SA06 goes faster...

A boy can dream...

[Pando]

Originally Posted by henk4

May be Mr. Button's abilties to convey to the engineers what is wrong with the car or what could make the car go faster are not very well developed. Some drivers are very good at that, others less so.

I think he's too much of a gentleman to even complain about it.

[Daz27]

If he has a degree of comprehension as to whats going on under him....

Sorry thats bad. If your an aussie and you read F1 magazine you'll understand...

[fpv_gtho]

I had hoped they'd improve once Barrichello got into things a bit better, as his driving style seems completely opposite to Button and Davison, and such should reveal flaws in the car them 2 where driving around (which it seemed to do, quite a bit).

Then of course they put so much effort into getting heat into their tyres, they fell behind in the development race and went from a top 3 team to a top 5 team.

Now after Monaco you might wonder if they'd be racing the Toyota's on another average weekend. Theyve taken another step backwards whereas McLaren and Williams may have taken a step forwards.

[Matra et Alpine]

The heat in tyres and the Barichello input that their brakes dont' "bite" as mcuch as he was used to coudl be linked.

If so then it is a BIG negative to Button's ability as a an all-round-driver to guide development. It's quite possible that the tyre problems were BECAUSE Button didn't brake hard because the brakes weren't able to bite well and he was unable to make the connection and instead was "just driving".... there are reasons why teams like RedBull are saying they're going to take up their option on DC for anotehr two seasons

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The heat in tyres and the Barichello input that their brakes dont' "bite" as mcuch as he was used to coudl be linked.

If so then it is a BIG negative to Button's ability as a an all-round-driver to guide development. It's quite possible that the tyre problems were BECAUSE Button didn't brake hard because the brakes weren't able to bite well and he was unable to make the connection and instead was "just driving".... there are reasons why teams like RedBull are saying they're going to take up their option on DC for anotehr two seasons

You have to wonder how Sato used to handle the car. '04 he didnt seem that far behind Button, but '05 he was nowhere.

[spi-ti-tout]

Japan has not done very good at F1 has it.

So why not take the chance before Toyota decides it wants to reduce quality and one of Honda's Vtecs break down.

Is Japanese politics keeping them too far away from doing a merge?

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout

Japan has not done very good at F1 has it.

So why not take the chance before Toyota decides it wants to reduce quality and one of Honda's Vtecs break down.

Is Japanese politics keeping them too far away from doing a merge?

WHY would they merge ?
They both have very strong engineering, vehicle ranges and cars are just a part of each company and F1 an even smaller part !! ( and Honda dont' run VTEC engines in F1 )

They dont' do well in F1 (I believe) because of their culture.
A subordinate STILL has trouble telling a manager that they are wrong.
It takes organised processes to allow subordinates to take control and provide inputs to change.
Not something you can realy afford in a fast moving high pace F1 team

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

WHY would they merge ?

See below

They both have very strong engineering, vehicle ranges and cars are just a part of each company and F1 an even smaller part !!

Yes but as I pointed out Japan is not very good at F1. there used to be talking of the olden Japanese corporations exchanging info to make products better in the old days. As one country if they can first show they can beat the Euro engineering probably only then can they do it alone (IF the problem does lie eith the 'neering)

( and Honda dont' run VTEC engines in F1 )

I was talking about the road engines

They dont' do well in F1 (I believe) because of their culture.
A subordinate STILL has trouble telling a manager that they are wrong.
It takes organised processes to allow subordinates to take control and provide inputs to change.

What is this, the 1890s Togokawa Shogonate. I think those times are all over gone and packeged.
They do it in WRC
the engineering might not be as complex but as you know feel plays a huge role in the driving
I've seen press releases and unofficial websites with quotes from Petter, Rovanpera, Atkison etc and the past drivers talking about the need for change and getting it done.
if Honda and Toyota can't be one as a country and think open-mindedly do they really deserve anyone to drive for them?

Not something you can realy afford in a fast moving high pace F1 team

agree 100%