Ford Australia under the FoMoCo microscope

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by geary

It won't be a fresh car, either. It'll be 80% BFII under the skin. Same wheelbase; everything.

.....

[fpv_gtho]

Well theres going to be alot of BF2 owing to the fact the drivetrain will be largely unchanged, the rear end will be largely unchanged, the overall proportions im not too sure on, but the big differences will be the body and front suspension, but thats already in existence under the Territory. So under the skin, its going to carry over alot, but that hinges on what weighting you give the new front end. Personally, i'd say more like 60-70% as i'd rate the driveline, basic proportions, front end and rear end all about equally, and one of those is definately going to be new.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I'd say it'd be same drivetrain, but that's no biggie as Ford's is fine. Can't see a reason for the front suspension to change from double wishbones, though it will be most likely different. Maybe slight changes to the Control Blade, nothing major though.

I do think however it will have a new chassis that's stiffer and better, just because they usually do. But I wouldn't say it'll be a heap of BFII, what'll happen is that Ford will carryover the good design elements of BFII (suspension and drivetrain) and adapt them onto the Orion

[fpv_gtho]

Theyre under pressure to keep costs contained on it, so the big focus is really on the body and interior. BA brought alot of new stuff that wasnt needed for that type of update, which has really stolen alot of its fire. If AU wouldve been a success, we'd be seeing an Orion debuting DOHC engines, control blade IRS and maybe a few other things. They were all brought forward what will be 5.5 years. Together with the front end, Orion originally wouldve had a significantly updated chassis/floorplan, but the now carryover floorplan both relieves some stress as well as removing some thunder from the hype.

The big thing with the front end is the lower wishbones, which are really 2 piece so theyve got double joints or something, alot like VE's front end IIRC. Also has the forward mounted steering rack and the hubs have the space for AWD.

[SlickHolden]

Please everyone tell me honest here. On another forum i got canned for saying this but tell me am i wrong or stupid or biased.
This was some time ago.

I said when the orion comes it wont kill the VE. Reason being the VE is now on a new path it's very good and has plenty of life in it being so new. That doesn't mean the orion wont be better chances are it might only just scrap ahead if it does, It might go head too head and the only thing that splits them might be a feel or one thing that was better over the other.
Because the orion might be new but it's going too carry some familiar characteristics in it. And that is what will keep the VE and Orion closer then ever before. For the first time they will go head too head with pretty much the same arsenal. Because of the AU's failure it brought many new things too the BA which might have been planed for BF or MKII just before the orion,
As i write i have just looked up and seen FPV_GTHO has already said what i am writing. It's the AU that brought this new gear too early, But at least there is no testing needed it's been tested now since 2002 in the real world day too day, So that is a plus.

But i was given some pretty heavy shit for saying that Ok i said it on a ford forum but it's really right and it's not insulting anything.

[adrenaline]

That's why I hate single brand forums. There is nobody that will tell it like it is. And they are a fanboy magnet.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Please everyone tell me honest here. On another forum i got canned for saying this but tell me am i wrong or stupid or biased.
This was some time ago.

I said when the orion comes it wont kill the VE. Reason being the VE is now on a new path it's very good and has plenty of life in it being so new. That doesn't mean the orion wont be better chances are it might only just scrap ahead if it does, It might go head too head and the only thing that splits them might be a feel or one thing that was better over the other.
Because the orion might be new but it's going too carry some familiar characteristics in it. And that is what will keep the VE and Orion closer then ever before. For the first time they will go head too head with pretty much the same arsenal. Because of the AU's failure it brought many new things too the BA which might have been planed for BF or MKII just before the orion,
As i write i have just looked up and seen FPV_GTHO has already said what i am writing. It's the AU that brought this new gear too early, But at least there is no testing needed it's been tested now since 2002 in the real world day too day, So that is a plus.

But i was given some pretty heavy shit for saying that Ok i said it on a ford forum but it's really right and it's not insulting anything.

Well it depends on alot of factors, but namely what the market is reacting to in 2 years and what Holden will do to VE in 2 years to distance itself from the VZ/VE similarity. Yes, due to Orion having alot of familiarity mechanically with BF2 there wont be a sense of newness in particular areas, but its still going to be all new sheetmetal and interior, and those are really the big issues where VE has jumped BF.

I personally expect Orion to jump VE moreso than VE jumped BF, but Holden will make up some of that ground with VF. The problem with VE is its a whole lot of stuff thats really already available. Hopefully Orion brings something new to the table, and VF as well with the possibility of DOD and DI.

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by ADRENALINE

That's why I hate single brand forums. There is nobody that will tell it like it is. And they are a fanboy magnet.

Number 1 reason why i don't go too ls1 forum. I have been told too piss of too there But i like too ad comments on other forums be that voice from the outer that has a different side of the conversation.

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Well it depends on alot of factors, but namely what the market is reacting to in 2 years and what Holden will do to VE in 2 years to distance itself from the VZ/VE similarity. Yes, due to Orion having alot of familiarity mechanically with BF2 there wont be a sense of newness in particular areas, but its still going to be all new sheetmetal and interior, and those are really the big issues where VE has jumped BF.

I personally expect Orion to jump VE moreso than VE jumped BF, but Holden will make up some of that ground with VF. The problem with VE is its a whole lot of stuff thats really already available. Hopefully Orion brings something new to the table, and VF as well with the possibility of DOD and DI.

I hope they both ad DI becasuse it will walk over the Aurion's fuel economy and leave the 4cyl camry in nowhere land. And that should be great for comepetition again because they will respond.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I agree with fpv on the Orion there. The VE isn't a huge jump over the BF, but it was a huge jump over the VZ. The BF is a thoroughly modern, very good car, aso any changes will just be a leap frog over the VE, and then Holden will reply with update to the VE etc. Now that Holden is at the same level as Ford with a modern, stiff body and non-1978 based IRS they'll be closer than ever. (Also now that the Commy is as heavy as the Falc as well _

[fpv_gtho]

Chris Bath and the rest of the CH7 crew have been up to their regular idiocy with lines like this during the news update

"Ford announce over 600 job cuts in line with billion dollar losses"