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  #166  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post
But not gun crime. That has been minimised.

Again organised crime and drug related crime is of little consequence to those not involved.
And I agree it is not the total solution, again with the minimisation thing.

it becomes a problem when the kids of these people see their parent being shot after picking them up from footy training

Still, another valid point.
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  #167  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IB4R View Post
EDIT: where does it stop? Cutting Self-Loaders pisses both sides of the argument off - Pro Think it doesn't go far enough, Anti Too far.
i don't care that they've gone, but consider that the "you can change magazines faster" argument is bullshit since most semi-auto sporting rifles at least have an integral magazine that can't be removed, so there might have been room to allow some of them to stay but the politicians have other things on their minds....
this is basically the "driver training not lower speed limits" argument motorists are having in AUs right now, lol.
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Last edited by clutch-monkey; 04-18-2007 at 01:01 AM.
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  #168  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:49 AM
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you might have misquoted someone there
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  #169  
Old 04-18-2007, 04:21 AM
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This shooter was terribly mentally ill and everyone knew it.

His parents seem to be good people and they tried to help him have a positive outlook on life. Several students were disturbed by his writings and some plays he had written were very bleak and violent.

One of his teachers recognized from instinct that he was in need of counseling and that in general he was a scary person. She even notified the police at one point because of tendencies he showed. Of course they couldn't do anything before he actually committed a crime.

The signs were everywhere that this guy was going to snap...witnesses say he let out a maniacal laugh just before he shot himself.

So...how do you stop this sort of mental illness? How do you prevent a crime before it happens? In cases like this you can't...no amount of gun control...no amount of security can prevent such cases either.

The questions and fodder rising out of this incident, mostly driven by the media, is an absurd longing for utopia...which is a fantasy.
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  #170  
Old 04-18-2007, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
So...how do you stop this sort of mental illness? How do you prevent a crime before it happens? In cases like this you can't...no amount of gun control...no amount of security can prevent such cases either.
No you're right - you can never prevent it - you can only reduce it

What is more disfunctional?

Denying members of society - including the mentally ill or possibly maybe disfunctional, but who knows? - their 'right' to own a specific kill-product, or to deny them? Which is preferable?
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The questions and fodder rising out of this incident, mostly driven by the media, is an absurd longing for utopia...which is a fantasy.
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  #171  
Old 04-18-2007, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia View Post
This shooter was terribly mentally ill and everyone knew it.
I certainly didn't know he existed until he stepped into the spotlight recently. what's your point?

Did the Gun shop owner know? would he have sold him the weapon if he did?

Quote:
His parents seem to be good people and they tried to help him have a positive outlook on life. Several students were disturbed by his writings and some plays he had written were very bleak and violent.
By all accounts his family are upstanding community members - if a little reserved.

many people experience dark times in their lives. some of them did not have people they felt they could talk to.

Quote:
One of his teachers recognized from instinct that he was in need of counseling and that in general he was a scary person. She even notified the police at one point because of tendencies he showed. Of course they couldn't do anything before he actually committed a crime.
Councilling was offered. but you can't force someone to go to councilling.

Where are you getting all of this information from, BTW?

Quote:
The signs were everywhere that this guy was going to snap...witnesses say he let out a maniacal laugh just before he shot himself.
Again - where are you getting this from?. This was kind of after the fact - when people knew he was crazy from the 32 other people he'd just shot.
Quote:
So...how do you stop this sort of mental illness? How do you prevent a crime before it happens? In cases like this you can't...no amount of gun control...no amount of security can prevent such cases either.
Mental illness is not something that can be stopped. only treated and managed. back to Harm Minimisation again

Quote:
The questions and fodder rising out of this incident, mostly driven by the media, is an absurd longing for utopia...which is a fantasy.
It's too easy to jump on a situation like this as a sign that societies turning to S**t, and it's not something the media are likely to turn down.

A faceless loner who shot up a quiet school? thats ratings gold.
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  #172  
Old 04-18-2007, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
Did the Gun shop owner know? would he have sold him the weapon if he did?
A background check prior to selling him the gun showing he was on medication would've prevented him buying the weapon. Also, laws to stop someone just walking in buying a semi-automatic handgun without a licence that's given to people who complete training, who have a valid reason (i.e sports pistol shooter, security guard etc.) and have had a background check (especially for mental illness) would've stopped him buying a gun from a Gun Shop.
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  #173  
Old 04-18-2007, 05:38 AM
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According to CNN, background checks were carried out. and he passed.
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  #174  
Old 04-18-2007, 06:21 AM
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as far as the gun control issue is concerned, with someone this crazy if it wasnt guns it would of just been bombs. which could of been worse at a place like a university.

seems like the guy was a walking cry for help.
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  #175  
Old 04-18-2007, 08:02 AM
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THE GUY WAS CRAZY& alone and thought the world was agianst him his parents were in Korea!He whould have found a way to kill before he could be stopped his anger fueled him to kill any way he could he chose guns!
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  #176  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:06 AM
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This was a very sad event!
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  #177  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:42 AM
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My wrong he was adopted I'm not shure if he was from USA?
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  #178  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:00 PM
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He's South Korean and he's lived in the USA for 14 years.

He was accused of stalking a couple of girls at VT in 2005. Also he was taken to a mental hospital at one point because he became suicidal.
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  #179  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia View Post
He's South Korean and he's lived in the USA for 14 years.

He was accused of stalking a couple of girls at VT in 2005. Also he was taken to a mental hospital at one point because he became suicidal.
I also thought I read that he had talked to the police almost a year before this incident happened in regards to the stalking. One maybe two of his professors considered his writing "disturbing." However even with this it is impossible to know when someone will simply snap as he did and I think it is really impossible to lay the blame entirely on gun control, government, police, security, etc when so many factors may have contributed to this terrible event.
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  #180  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:51 PM
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A few years ago a woman in Texas drowned all 4 or 5 of her kids...so do we need bathtub control? No...a mentally disturbed person is going to find some method to do whatever it is they feel the need to.

Stay rational people.
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