Driver training: is the government really doing its job?

[Falcon500]

Well you dont really need to find the apex of a corner in normal driveing...a few tenths isnt worth a police officer wondering if your on extasy.....
Drifting is rather a stupid idea and something i view is mostly wank (even if entertaining to whatch) if you want real drifting whatch paul stubber in his camaro in the historics...or on a more historical note "Stomin" norman beechy in his mustang (he didnt chuck the monaro around like he did the team neptune mustang)...other classics are footage of the old tarmac surface of fraser park in canberra when they used to run sprint cars on it and sprint cars in general for that matter....
They can sure learn the basics like that in a defensive driveing course but if they want to learn how to drift then they can pay the $30 membership to a hill climb track and the $50 odd it costs to get your cams level 2 liscence to learn that....

[eyebrows]

its not learning how to drift as such as controlling the drift because its better to know how to controll it then when it happens going around a corner you are able to get a hold of ur car rather than going onto the wrong side of the road and causing a major fatality. my point is to get ppl to be aware of their surroundings and to be able to controll most situations to give them a better chance at survival not to give them an opertunity to creat more problems.

[Falcon500]

It is impreativeto learn vehical controll...drifting isa difrent thing alltogether all considering your purposfully doing it...your time wouldbe better learning how to controll a tank slapper which is much more likly all considering most normal people dont set out to dothat...that or dont be a dick head behind the wheel!
The other day i was going through thelights which turned orange not wanting tostop in the last few metres i sped up to the posted limit and went throught the lights and went right at speed and this prevoked an arse end slide which i manged to recover from easily...if where drifting i would of dropped a cog (possibly even 2) while doing this and absolutly hammerd it...do you see the diffrence?

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by crisis

You get the job. That is the answer. Supervised driving. Putting coloured plates on an unsupervised drivers car is a further, typically cynical measure to be seen to be doing something without actually having to it. All these extra plates and licences will of course have to cost more revenue, I mean money. Forget mandatory time on provisional plates and compel the P Plate drivers to undertake continued training during this time. When the instructors are satisfied with the drivers attitude and ability , promote them to a full a licence. Many will never graduate, and rightly so. That is much too hard and complex a system though, so we are stuck with the govenrments, "let em die and collect the cash from the ones who are still breathing" policy.

well this could turn a good leaf for the government. less people passing the driving tests, less people driving which means less city traffic and more publick transport, which of course goes straight back to the government anyway. its a win-win situation. all the idiot drivers are off the road, publikc transport gets a mass increase and the remaining drivers actually know how to drive in carying conditions

[eyebrows]

ok i might be using the wrong word here im using drifting as a general term for losing front back what ever or everything at once. and i agree with u that they should explain the problems with tail gating (is tank slapping the same thing?) and that would be a part of the theory as i was saying lots of theory and show them pictures of what happens when u do stupid stuff on the road but i think living in australia we should also look at the rural death toll. that shows the inexperiance of drivers with a full four wheel drift and how speed can effect the likley hood of drifting on our roads because u can do it in a strieght line too, ive seen it happen to the most expirenced ralley drivers not just normal folk on holiday going down a gravel road (u just lost ur ass no big thing but the hole car going sideways because of road coditions is hard to controll), this is what im getting at not just teaching them how to drift im talkin a hole expination of hazards on the road and hazards with the cars and how to controll the cars its not just teaching them how to drift its teaching them every thing. and also saying that picking an apex isn't that important when u go around a corner pickin the apex keeps the car more stable makin it have better adhesion to the road less like to break loose etc it all makes a difference in safty terms!

just going over my point im suggesting a full programe that teaches them every hazard (or the more common ones) and how to controll them ok?

[Falcon500]

Now think very carefully why would shifting to the apex give better adheasion to the road as opposed to say driveing normally? would it be that your verring around the road more? wouldit be that would shouldent needto at normal road going pace or prehaps even the fact its not the line people normally travel on and contains more muck on the road? but yes you are right about keeping stable around corners....
Tank slappers are more associated with motorbikes but is a common term for cars too...you could also call it a fishy (where the arse slides side to side) they are the most common hazard faced by drivers loosing controll most drivers are good enough to get the first step happen but far too ften over correct (during a slide) causing this problem and if you can controll that your more likly to stop a drift....
Pepople who tail gate are just wankers...your supposed toleave a 3 seconds gap (usually told by seeing an object and counting the distence between you and him...) some people dont get this....

In general you have the right idea...just wrong terminology...though it amy seem like it imnot havein ago(again on the lackof tone or facial expression on the keyboard) at you enjoy some rep points....

Also on a grave note if you want pics on the horrors that can ahppen on the road i can send you some (im not posting them on the site) make a note they are VERY graphic and VERY grusome(i found them quite unsettling )....if you really want a look you can pm me and ask for them.

[eyebrows]

i'll start at y would shifting to the apex give better adhesion i don't know i just figured that if the car is stable it would have better traction (better word than adhesion).

all these have been done by friends all under 18 yrs of age that work and could afford their own cars.
one was racing a wrx down a main road in city at about 7:30 and wrapped his nicely done up cortina around a tellergraph poll and now he drives like a grandmother
other one was tail gating a camery doing the speed limit they had to stop and he ended up makin the camery his new body kit (he made his car into a ricer lolz)
stupid novelty thing... lol (not starting that up again)

my terminology is shit so i can agree with that and i wouldn't give a shit if u were taking the piss out of me

and pictures, i think i'll pass, ive seen a couple of things that didn't want to as it is, ne way im glad we understand eachother

[Falcon500]

Wellif you whatch the drivers on the telly they find the apex...which means moveing allover the road...even if you just do it in your lane youll look a bit sus...finding the apex (in general terms mostly used in raceing) is finding the ultimate line on a corner to try and keep as straight as possible saveing veluble 10ths of seconds whileraceing ...prehaps how to sensable corner or somethinglike that?
I have a mate who while on a pizza delievery run wrote off acommadore ute in his XD wagon...while drunk (and with me in it) wrote off his XF and while in some paddock basher ran from the cops and collected and embankement...he also got a fine on his ls...and apprently i who hs only gotten a stern word from a cop(gee son you cut that close while pulling out in front of me) am a worse driver
And ia lso have a mate who wrote off his celica while being supid doing 140...i drove it a few times and feard to go over 110 in it...serious overstearing problem...

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Wellif you whatch the drivers on the telly they find the apex...which means moveing allover the road...even if you just do it in your lane youll look a bit sus...finding the apex (in general terms mostly used in raceing) is finding the ultimate line on a corner to try and keep as straight as possible saveing veluble 10ths of seconds whileraceing ...prehaps how to sensable corner or somethinglike that?...

Fastest route on a road is NOT the racing lin.
THAT works for tracks because there are no hazards awaiting you round the corner ( well very seldom )
On the road the safest line to follow is the line wihch maximises the distance of the vanishing point.
The VP is THE critical point on a road when trying to drive quickly, safely.
It is the point where both edges of the road seem to meet.
On straight roads this will look a few miles out
On VERY tight corners this is very close. - DAMN, can't draw in text
The sped you drive at should 100% be determined by the distance to the VP and the hazards you can perceive between where you are and that point.
On bikes you 100% will 'weave' on the road to achieve a maximum VP.
On cars, it's not so critical, but on a wide road you would do likewise.
By maxmising the distance to the VP you can maximise the speed you are travelling at.
On an unknow race track the VP would be used to govern your speed.
As a track becomes better know you can push the cornering speed to a 'virtual' VP where you assume no hazards exist. THAT lline is then typically the same as the race line anyoen woudl desribe by 'traditional' methonds - e.g braking straight, turn in quick and throttle on and smooth corner out on exit.

[Falcon500]

Good morning on this lovely anzac day.
Rember on this day buy a Vet a beer and try and have a game of 2 up

Well that is very true the raceing line is not always the fastest I was attemtping to keep it simple by being more general but seems i bent my little thing about correct terminology in the process ...trailing off fora second youll love australian raceing our races are often made moreinteresting by odd things that happen....like when allan moffat in 71 bathurst cruised around the track with a vb box firmly stuck to the grille....Or at Warrick Farm (i think it was) in the early 70s ATCC where some bloke stole a white valient 4 door and cruised around the track at an average of 40mph...he was a true hazard! there was another isntance where he blocked up a tiny corner scarclybig enough for one car let alone 2 full size cars! allan moffat (again...) manged to keep his car on the track and produced a cracking time as well...he was later interviewed at the end of the race about the incident and commented "what white valient?" ( everyone all breathed at once when it happend....)

That is bloody interesting but took a few reads bit slow at the moment im quite hung over.....

[2ndclasscitizen]

Trying to follow a racing line around public roads is stupid as they werent designed to have a racing line. You should follow where other cars have gone, because there is often a lot of rubber on the road. And if you're going to drift, don't do it around town. Go out on a road away from a lot of traffic. A mate of mine who loves drifting his 325i coupe goes out down the cotter, not around town.
Also, I think the government should do more to teach people how to handle different conditions and how to avoid accidents as they occur.

[eyebrows]

thanks for that had no idea about that kind of stuff (VP). and also drifting shouldn't be done on the road at all if u ask me not even out in woop woop because there still a chanse off some thing happening even tho it is minmal compared to the city. this may also be some where the government steps in maybe to fund more track days to get things like drifting off the road all together (maybe this would be a stupid thing im not sure what do u guys think?)

[Falcon500]

Well its not a stupid diea like ehre in canberra fairburn is a non profit oganization that supplys us with hillclimb track and advanced driveing course...prehaps they should fund and prehaps even subasidise them tomake their classes more affordable and more then likly make them more profits in the long run?

[fpv_gtho]

if you look hard enough you can probably find some drifting events around the country, but its one of those things thats huge in Japan and has only just reached the US, let alone here. Even still i highly doubt it would be a police endorsed event

[2fastand2dumb]

sorry to bring the beggining up like this but i was to lasy to read most of the posts.
but here in canberra after you have had your p's for 6 months you can go do a p off course which means you can drive without your p plates and you get an extra 4 points on your licensce