2009 Corvette ZR1 LS9 Engine

[culver]

Actually I think one of the biggest benefits of the body on frame design used by pickups is versatility. You can change the chassis length very easily, you can also replace the pickup bed with any number of utility beds. You can change the cab depending on configuration. You can also use the same cab on a light or heavy duty frame.

A unibody truck such as the Honda isn't a bad idea so long as you want only one configuration. The problem is it looses platform flexibility. Hard to argue with the flexibility of a pickup platform when it comes to number of configurations.

[hightower99]

Originally Posted by culver

Actually I think one of the biggest benefits of the body on frame design used by pickups is versatility. You can change the chassis length very easily, you can also replace the pickup bed with any number of utility beds. You can change the cab depending on configuration. You can also use the same cab on a light or heavy duty frame.

A unibody truck such as the Honda isn't a bad idea so long as you want only one configuration. The problem is it looses platform flexibility. Hard to argue with the flexibility of a pickup platform when it comes to number of configurations.

That makes alot more sense.

[-What-]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

EDIT: I have been completely unable to find out the mass of the F430's engine.

Well, the F355's engine weighed 168 kg. Ferrari has said that the 360 Modena's engine was larger than that...and the F430's V8 was 4 kg's heavier than the 360's engine.

[2ndclasscitizen]

So probably about 180kg.

[nota]

Originally Posted by culver

Actually I think one of the biggest benefits of the body on frame design used by pickups is versatility. You can change the chassis length very easily, you can also replace the pickup bed with any number of utility beds. You can change the cab depending on configuration. You can also use the same cab on a light or heavy duty frame.

A unibody truck such as the Honda isn't a bad idea so long as you want only one configuration. The problem is it looses platform flexibility. Hard to argue with the flexibility of a pickup platform when it comes to number of configurations.

Why not a monocoque (unibody) front coupled to a channel-frame rear, as in 1999-on Falcon ute? This delivers a lighter solution with true passenger-car performance, steering precision and cabin comfort, plus all the cab/chassis platform flexibility of a BOF

For example see the Photo Gallery section of Ford Falcon 6x2 1.75 tonne Ute TRANSIT Hordern Supercab cab Workhorse Ute Australia

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by -What-

Well, the F355's engine weighed 168 kg. Ferrari has said that the 360 Modena's engine was larger than that...and the F430's V8 was 4 kg's heavier than the 360's engine.

Yeah, I read that the F430's V8 was heavier than the 360 by 4 kg as well. Is the source accurate though?

[hightower99]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

So probably about 180kg.

Which would be
396lbs. I would guess that it probably weighs just under 180kg (between 176kg and 178kg) the Scud's engine would be about 2-3kg lighter.

But even with the weight of 396lbs. the Scud's engine has a power:weight ratio of 1.27HP/lb. Even the normal F430 would have a power:weight ratio of 1.23HP/lb. So at least 12%-15% better than the LS7

But what about size? The F430 engine has a bore spacing of 104mm while the LS7 has a bore spacing of 111.8mm (advantage of roughly 31.2mm to Ferrari) Ferrari engine has only 81mm stroke while the LS7 has 101.6mm (advantage roughly 20.6mm although this is only for the difference in stroke but it is the deck height that is important).

I would say that the Ferrari is likely slightly shorter (along crankshaft axis), slightly taller from crankshaft to top of heads, and slightly wider at widest points of the cylinder heads. But I would say that other than those dimensions the Ferrari is smaller (ie it sits lower, more room under the heads for exhaust manifolds, more room in the Vee).

[culver]

Originally Posted by nota

Why not a monocoque (unibody) front coupled to a channel-frame rear, as in 1999-on Falcon ute? This delivers a lighter solution with true passenger-car performance, steering precision and cabin comfort, plus all the cab/chassis platform flexibility of a BOF

For example see the Photo Gallery section of Ford Falcon 6x2 1.75 tonne Ute TRANSIT Hordern Supercab cab Workhorse Ute Australia

The monoque front end doesn't work when we want to change the cab shape on the same chassis nor when we want to put the same cab on a heavier chassis. For instance, Ford uses the same cab on the F-250 as well as the medium duty F-450. Also, the same complete chassis is used with say a long cab, short bed truck as well as a short cab long bed.

[culver]

It wouldn't surprise me that the Ferrari engine is smaller and lighter. I would point out a few things. When we took at weight we do need to know if the comparison is apples to apples. The LS7 weights I've seen include everything from the throttle body to the exhaust manifold. I don't know if the flywheel is included in most of the quoted weights. GM quoted the LS1, which is heavier than the LS7, at something like 490lb with the flywheel. It's quite a bit lighter if you spec the automatic version with the flex plate.

I would also point out that the LS7's weight is very good in comparison to the BMW V10 and MB AMG V8. While it certainly isn't the most powerful engine per lb (the Porsche V10 also beats it from what I have read), it is very good.

Now one area where I could see the Ferrari engine being bigger is in height. The intake manifold on the Ferrari appears to be quite tall. The LS7 manifold has to be very low to fit under the low hood of the Corvette.

Here is an interesting comparison:
dp vehicle home Go to the 1/20 update on the DP1 to see a motorcycle based 2.8L V8 compared to a wet sump LSx motor.
Here is one sample picture:
http://dpcars.net/dp1test/dp1347.jpg
Clearly the bike engine based V8 looks like it will be lighter by a fair margin, it is. However a few other things stand out. The Chevy is much longer but only fractionally taller including a wet sump. A dry sump might completely remove the difference. Also the small V8 needs a manifold on top of the intake runners. That might end up equalizing the total height. The V8 has all that included in the height. The little bike motor is really cool but I’m still impressed with the tight packaging of the LSx V8s. They really are quite remarkable simply for the combination of light weight, compact size, low cost, and good power.

[Matra et Alpine]

Agree on the sump point. Anyone got the numbers on how much it drops the crankshaft centre point by ?
With dry sump you could chose to mount the Hartley at an angle as has been done on quite a few Hayebusa based ingines installas in mid/rear engined cars.
Also interesting to compare the height of the Harlte intakes --- if all sizes are to be considered then what about the space needed to feed air to the LSxs intake ? Anyone got diagrams ?
I woudl point out that many times folks go to great lengths to try to get open trumpets showing up through the bonnet So perhaps it's a plus and not a negative as suggested

[-What-]

Originally Posted by hightower99

Which would be
396lbs. I would guess that it probably weighs just under 180kg (between 176kg and 178kg) the Scud's engine would be about 2-3kg lighter.

But even with the weight of 396lbs. the Scud's engine has a power:weight ratio of 1.27HP/lb. Even the normal F430 would have a power:weight ratio of 1.23HP/lb. So at least 12%-15% better than the LS7

Don't go and run with that. Ferrari didn't state the 360's engine weight for a reason...they only said that it was larger than the F355 BUT it was more powerful so it offset the weight gain.

We don't know if the F430's engine is 180kg or 220 kg.

I'll e-mail Ferrari and ask them.

[stang-h8er]

you suck, that car would blow away any of the pathetic toys from the bottom of the cereal box you call cars

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by stang-h8er

you suck, that car would blow away any of the pathetic toys from the bottom of the cereal box you call cars

Care to present evidence, or is this just being a fan ?

[roosterjuicer]

body of frame is the best way to go for trucks unless your just a grocery getter. unibody doesn't have the strength to handle the kind of stress a frame can. which is why a ridgeline isn't technicially a half ton truck...its more like a midsize.

[-What-]

Ha!!!


I have found the F430 engine weight from the source...Ferrari themselves.

417 lbs


Someone on another forum told me this but an e-mail confirmed the weight.