2008 Formula One Brazilian Grand Prix

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

He did the opposite of what he did in all the other races.

And interestingly he almost lost the title for it.

Lunacy - last year all the pundits said his aggression cost him, this year he played it safe and he won. Yes, he nearly lost, but he won. In fact, his aggression in past races late this season nearly cost him as well, so playing it safe is definitely what he shoulda done in my eyes. Frankly the McLaren may not have been good on the day anyways - Heikki is not Lewis but he was down in the standings too so maybe the car and driver(s) and circuit just didn't hook up.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

Lunacy - last year all the pundits said his aggression cost him, this year he played it safe and he won. Yes, he nearly lost, but he won. In fact, his aggression in past races late this season nearly cost him as well, so playing it safe is definitely what he shoulda done in my eyes. Frankly the McLaren may not have been good on the day anyways - Heikki is not Lewis but he was down in the standings too so maybe the car and driver(s) and circuit just didn't hook up.

Of course he did what he had to do. And won.

But interestingly you could feel that for the brief moment he was losing the title in the last couple of laps, just after Vettel had passed him and before someone told him Glock was on dry tires and going slower than a turtle, he was very nervous, overdriving all the time and constantly sideways. It'd have been ironic that he had lost the title for playing it too safe.

[fpv_gtho]

Hamilton should learn with experience when to push and when to play it safe. Thats something that has caused him alot of pain this year in the earlier rounds.

Ross Brawn was particularly critical of McLarens conservative approach to the weekend and thats from one of the most experienced voices in the pitlane.

[RacingManiac]

IMO they shouldn't have been playing as close as they did. If they DID take it as any other weekend, he wouldn't be in 5th place and under constant threat of losing it. They should have raced to win, but its Hamilton that needs to calm down and drive like he did in Shanghai this year, and not like what he did in Fuji. There is racing to win and then there is racing to win stupidly.....

[Kitdy]

Was he overcautious or was the car not hooked up though? I think if he had qualified in second or third where he usually does he would been fine - maybe a bit too much fuel by McLaren. Also, they had some very unfortunate circumstances - everything was fine and Hamilton was in fourth then it rained. I don't think that was overcautious really, I am not sure he had the pace to catch Kimi or Fernando - the problem was the qualy strategy, all he needed was 1 place to make it really safe. Imagine in the closing stages were he third instead of fourth, that woulda been fine, losing three positions would be unlikely as hell, him nearly losing 2 in the last 5 laps was very unlikely as it was. To me, even if he was fully pushing I am not sure he would ever have been on Massa's pace and as I mentioned maybe not even the others on the podium. Vettel getting by and nearly Glock was just the racing gods making things exciting for us and taunting Felipe and Co.

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by ZeTurbo

In my opinion Hamilton should not have won. it was fluke. (and hear me out before you all go nuts)

Rubbish.

As Kitdy pointed out, Massa was only still in with a chance of winning the title by virtue of a couple of extremely questionable penalties. Going in to the weekend, my thoughts were that either I'd like to see Hamilton win it or see Massa win it comfortably. As a neutral fan, for Massa to win the title with level points with Hamilton would have been the worst result for the sport. Not because I have anything against Massa, I genuinely like the guy. But it would effectively have meant that Massa beat Hamilton by virtue of the stewards' penalty for Bourdais in Fuji, a decision that is comfortably in the top 3 worst decisions in Grand Prix history.

It would have been a situation where everyone remembers that Massa was the champion, but there would always be "but...?" and "well, should he have...?" question marks hanging over it. The last thing F1 needs is more controversy. Even if Massa had won the title by three or four points, there would still be the question marks hanging over the Spa penalties that Kitdy referenced, although that was slightly less laughably ridiculous than the one in Fuji.

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

I agree 100%. I kept wondering why he was laying back at the minimum position not leaving any room for error. Kind of an empty championship IMO.

He's good but he didn't take the race by the throat like he was driving to win.

How on earth does finishing fifth make it an "empty championship"? What a load of hogwash.

Originally Posted by Kitdy

Was he overcautious or was the car not hooked up though? I think if he had qualified in second or third where he usually does he would been fine - maybe a bit too much fuel by McLaren. Also, they had some very unfortunate circumstances - everything was fine and Hamilton was in fourth then it rained. I don't think that was overcautious really, I am not sure he had the pace to catch Kimi or Fernando - the problem was the qualy strategy, all he needed was 1 place to make it really safe. Imagine in the closing stages were he third instead of fourth, that woulda been fine, losing three positions would be unlikely as hell, him nearly losing 2 in the last 5 laps was very unlikely as it was. To me, even if he was fully pushing I am not sure he would ever have been on Massa's pace and as I mentioned maybe not even the others on the podium. Vettel getting by and nearly Glock was just the racing gods making things exciting for us and taunting Felipe and Co.

I think you've called it pretty much spot on Kitdy.

Hamilton tries to push the limits, he gets called reckless, hot-headed, and not worthy to be champ.

Hamilton drives cautiously and sensibly, he gets called over-cautious, cowardly, and not worthy to be a champ.

He just can't win with some people!

The problem McLaren had was that they knew they were going to turn down the revs on the engine at some point to avoid any potential problems. This would have left them as sitting ducks down the straight and into turn one, the only major over-taking point. As a result, they went with less wing than everyone else, as evidenced by the speedtrap figures. It worked OK on the dry track, Hamilton was reasonably competitive in the middle portion of the race considering he was under strict orders to nurse the car. But in the wet, downforce is king. In the slippery conditions at the start and end of the race both McLarens struggled horribly for grip. I'm sure McLaren wish they hadn't gone quite so light on downforce with the benefit of hindsight, but they got away with it in the end. Just!

All things told I thought Lewis did a decent job of it given the pressure and circumstances. He had one slight error which let Vettel through, and it almost cost him. However, I think on review Hamilton and McLaren deserved the title. Massa did a brilliant job plenty of races and especially this one, but over the course of the season crucial errors were made by him and especially the Ferrari team, and they paid the price in the end.

[Kitdy]

I can't even remember the Fuji penalty J_B can you remind me? I may have missed it potentially.

Another thing my buddy just said was remember Massa's pit in Singapore with the fuel hose? That sucked for him and was not his fault either but if you start looking at all DNFs for weird crazyness they usually balance out for everyone in a season.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I can't even remember the Fuji penalty J_B can you remind me? I may have missed it potentially.

On the last part of the race when Bourdais was exiting the pits after his last stop Massa tried overtaking him at the end of the main straight when Bourdais was well out of the pits. Both collided and Massa spun.

After the race Bourdais was penalised with 25 seconds and Massa got promoted from 8th to 7th (or 7th to 6th, I can't remember).

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I can't even remember the Fuji penalty J_B can you remind me? I may have missed it potentially.

Another thing my buddy just said was remember Massa's pit in Singapore with the fuel hose? That sucked for him and was not his fault either but if you start looking at all DNFs for weird crazyness they usually balance out for everyone in a season.

Speed Channel did a tally, I think it was just before round 16, of the mistakes by teams Mclaren and Ferrari and their drivers. At that point McLaren had cost themselves 35 points and Ferrari 36.

Fitting the c'ship cam down to the final corner I suppose.

[Dino Scuderia]

How on earth does finishing fifth make it an "empty championship"? What a load of hogwash.

Because he didn't attack the race like a champion, he did the minimum and got lucky in the end.

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Because he didn't attack the race like a champion, he did the minimum and got lucky in the end.

I think he already did enough attacking this season. Remember last year? It is only logical that he was a bit more cautious, especially considering the conditions. He would have finished an easy fourth if it had stayed dry.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Because he didn't attack the race like a champion, he did the minimum and got lucky in the end.

agree

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Because he didn't attack the race like a champion, he did the minimum and got lucky in the end.

If he would have lost it would have been extremely unlucky as it rained with 5 or so laps to go, so he was lucky and unlucky.

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

I think he already did enough attacking this season. Remember last year? It is only logical that he was a bit more cautious, especially considering the conditions. He would have finished an easy fourth if it had stayed dry.

As J_B and I and you agree, he made the right choice. Maybe McLaren made the mistake in setup and qualy fuel load, but Lewis did fine.

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

I think he already did enough attacking this season. Remember last year? It is only logical that he was a bit more cautious, especially considering the conditions. He would have finished an easy fourth if it had stayed dry.

He had another year of experience since 'last year'. Sooner or later you have to drive with confidence.

[RacingManiac]

I think the pts Hamilton lost for the "questionable penalty" and the pt Massa lost for Ferrari's f-ed up season counts about the same. The margin would've been close if not a bit towards Massa's favor. The Engine blow and the botched Singapore pitstop lost quite a few pts for Massa....

Did Ham deserve the title? Of course, he who with the most pts at the end of the season wins. Simple as that. Would Massa be anyless deserving if he had won this weekend like it was? Just as much so.