2008 Formula One Brazilian Grand Prix

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

He had another year of experience since 'last year'. Sooner or later you have to drive with confidence.

"confidence" is required to drive safely to book points

I don't think you get racing
Perhaps this analogy is better .... it's Superbowl, you're up 40 points going in to the fourth quarter. Do you start with your first string quarterback or go to second and a running game to use up the clock ? Going all aggresive and balls-out isn't the best in any sport when another option exists

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

"confidence" is required to drive safely to book points

I don't think you get racing
Perhaps this analogy is better .... it's Superbowl, you're up 40 points going in to the fourth quarter. Do you start with your first string quarterback or go to second and a running game to use up the clock ? Going all aggresive and balls-out isn't the best in any sport when another option exists

He won it NASCAR style....don't go for the win...just try for the points you need...and if things don't fall your way...just say...'hey, that's racing'.

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

He won it NASCAR style....don't go for the win...just try for the points you need...and if things don't fall your way...just say...'hey, that's racing'.

He didn't have the car underneath him to go for the win. Despite having the revs on his engine turned down he was still significantly faster than his team mate all race. He did a good job. Up until the point the rain came he was in fourth and had a fairly comfortable margin.

I ask you this: in the same circumstances, would great champions like Alonso, Schumacher, Prost etc have done things your way and gone balls out for the win?

Not a chance.

[scottie300z]

People just want to see drivers try and win every race they can. May not always seem like the smartest thing to do, but also the driver doesn't look like he's just baby sitting positions.

The super bowl analogy is close but the winner there wins the contest and the championship. Hamilton only tried to win one of those.

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer

He didn't have the car underneath him to go for the win. Despite having the revs on his engine turned down he was still significantly faster than his team mate all race. He did a good job. Up until the point the rain came he was in fourth and had a fairly comfortable margin.

I ask you this: in the same circumstances, would great champions like Alonso, Schumacher, Prost etc have done things your way and gone balls out for the win?

Not a chance.

Even if Hamilton had the confidence, Ron Dennis and co. would have been blasting his ears away if he attempted risque driving and passes.

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

I think the pts Hamilton lost for the "questionable penalty" and the pt Massa lost for Ferrari's f-ed up season counts about the same. The margin would've been close if not a bit towards Massa's favor. The Engine blow and the botched Singapore pitstop lost quite a few pts for Massa....

The point is though, mechanical failures and team blunders are a part and parcel of racing. It might not seem all that fair on Massa, but it's always been the best driver AND team combo that wins. If his team ballsed things up then that's just racing I'm afraid.

Bullshit penalties however are NOT part and parcel of racing, or at least they shouldn't be. The Spa penalty for Hamilton was maybe a 50-50 call, so we'll leave that one out. But there's no way on earth ANYONE with 2 eyes in their head and a couple of brain cells to rub together could see how Massa deserved that extra point he was gifted in Fuji. Except the race stewards that is.

If Massa had tied with Hamilton and won, the title would forever be tarnished by that ridiculous moment. I'm glad for the sports' sake that that didn't occur.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer

He didn't have the car underneath him to go for the win. Despite having the revs on his engine turned down he was still significantly faster than his team mate all race. He did a good job. Up until the point the rain came he was in fourth and had a fairly comfortable margin.

I ask you this: in the same circumstances, would great champions like Alonso, Schumacher, Prost etc have done things your way and gone balls out for the win?

Not a chance.

I disagree, imo he had the car to go for the win, or the capabilities, both his and of the team, to set it rightly. they decided to go for that kind of attitude. it reminds me of Lauda, in a way, but I don't think Ham was driving in that way in order to avoid (useless) risks but because he was freakin' nervous, the same reasons why Massa did some stupid errors during the season but not in the last race, when he couldn't loose anything

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

I disagree, imo he had the car to go for the win, or the capabilities, both his and of the team, to set it rightly. they decided to go for that kind of attitude. it reminds me of Lauda, in a way, but I don't think Ham was driving in that way in order to avoid (useless) risks but because he was freakin' nervous, the same reasons why Massa did some stupid errors during the season but not in the last race, when he couldn't loose anything

If he really had the car to win, he would have been capable to fight off Vettel.

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

If he really had the car to win, he would have been capable to fight off Vettel.

Unless Vettel is better which is a likely case.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

If he really had the car to win, he would have been capable to fight off Vettel.

that's the point, he wasn't capable of controlling himself in those moments, and perhaps during the whole race. I can understand that, he is young and relatively "unexperienced".

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Unless Vettel is better which is a likely case.

another possibility, still to be confirmed though

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

Even if Hamilton had the confidence, Ron Dennis and co. would have been blasting his ears away if he attempted risque driving and passes.

Only regarding the makes title. Ron has never given a crap about a drivers championships, he just wants the makes title.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Only regarding the makes title. Ron has never given a crap about a drivers championships, he just wants the makes title.

in the last times, the total absence of titles has changed his mind, imo

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer

He didn't have the car underneath him to go for the win. Despite having the revs on his engine turned down he was still significantly faster than his team mate all race. He did a good job. Up until the point the rain came he was in fourth and had a fairly comfortable margin.

I ask you this: in the same circumstances, would great champions like Alonso, Schumacher, Prost etc have done things your way and gone balls out for the win?

Not a chance.

Prost always did the minimum needed...and never approved of racing in the rain....as for the others mentioned...Schumacher collided with Hill and Villy IIRC trying to win. Alonso is more aggressive than Hami in these situations IMO.

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer

The point is though, mechanical failures and team blunders are a part and parcel of racing. It might not seem all that fair on Massa, but it's always been the best driver AND team combo that wins. If his team ballsed things up then that's just racing I'm afraid.

Bullshit penalties however are NOT part and parcel of racing, or at least they shouldn't be. The Spa penalty for Hamilton was maybe a 50-50 call, so we'll leave that one out. But there's no way on earth ANYONE with 2 eyes in their head and a couple of brain cells to rub together could see how Massa deserved that extra point he was gifted in Fuji. Except the race stewards that is.

If Massa had tied with Hamilton and won, the title would forever be tarnished by that ridiculous moment. I'm glad for the sports' sake that that didn't occur.

Funny the same sentiment doesn't exist when the "team" cheated and the drivers who benefitted did not get penalized.....

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

that's the point, he wasn't capable of controlling himself in those moments, and perhaps during the whole race. I can understand that, he is young and relatively "unexperienced".

He controlled himself very well throughout the majority of the race. When he had to get past Fisichella for example; I suspect the Hamilton of last season would have launched one up the inside from way back on the first attempt. In those conditions that would have been a crazy thing to do. He bided his time and executed a perfect move despite having to take the wet line on dry tyres.

The fact is his car wasn't best set up for wet conditions. He was running less downforce than everyone around him. In wet conditions he didn't have any where near the right level of grip to be able to compete for the win.

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

Only regarding the makes title. Ron has never given a crap about a drivers championships, he just wants the makes title.

What a load of absolute rubbish.