interesting read

[car_fiend]

just something a friend of mine passed onto me about the Israel/Palestine conflict. im just spreading it like wild fire, LOL. ne ways... here's the link.
If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
and for the record, my point isnt to offend or make ne one look "bad/evil/ne other thing that comes to mind" . i just want the truth out and KNOWN!!!

[blingbling]

i havn't felt this ignorant since i found out what actually happened in east timur

[Pando]

I found a stream of the movie I mentioned in an earlier thread:

Occupation 101 - Google video

It's really watch worthy.

[roosterjuicer]

very objective source.

there are thousands of statistics floating around the world on every subject every minute. Yay you found "what every american should know.org". Try being objective, find multiple sources, from BOTH sides!

When i go do some research on what football team to bet on, I dont just go to the home teams website or a bunch of home team bloggers to make my decision. I look at tons of information from both sides then try to look at the situation objectively based on both sides argument and what i deduce from common sense, thow in a little supposedly objective picks from the media and thats how i make my decision.

People should do the same thing when looking at international politics and everything in life. Look at some pro israeli stuff (even if you disagree!) look at some pro palestinian stuff (Even if you disagree), look at some allegedly objective reporting (cnn, fox, little news agencies, big news agencies, blogs, ect...) in your mind let each side make an argument and then try your hardest to look at it objectively. but whatever you do, dont just find some statistics on a random website that is clearly not trying to be objective and follow it blindly because you can probably find some other random website with different statistics about the same topic.

remember, 95.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[car_fiend]

Originally Posted by roosterjuicer

very objective source.

there are thousands of statistics floating around the world on every subject every minute. Yay you found "what every american should know.org". Try being objective, find multiple sources, from BOTH sides!

When i go do some research on what football team to bet on, I dont just go to the home teams website or a bunch of home team bloggers to make my decision. I look at tons of information from both sides then try to look at the situation objectively based on both sides argument and what i deduce from common sense, thow in a little supposedly objective picks from the media and thats how i make my decision.

People should do the same thing when looking at international politics and everything in life. Look at some pro israeli stuff (even if you disagree!) look at some pro palestinian stuff (Even if you disagree), look at some allegedly objective reporting (cnn, fox, little news agencies, big news agencies, blogs, ect...) in your mind let each side make an argument and then try your hardest to look at it objectively. but whatever you do, dont just find some statistics on a random website that is clearly not trying to be objective and follow it blindly because you can probably find some other random website with different statistics about the same topic.

remember, 95.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.

1stly watch the video.......
2. honestly, these are the facts. just because the website has a certain address and says something that "could be made up" doesnt mean a thing. just look at TODAY'S news. the statistics are backed by what is going on in that region. there are hundreds more palestinians killed by israelis than there are israelis killed by palestinians. and NO ONE has stepped in to stop it. and where is the U.S. to STOP TERRORISM IN THE MIDDLE EAST now??? had palestinians made one little attack, all of a sudden, "terrorist attacks in the Middle East", but no. Israelis attack, and a slap on the wrist is an exaggerated way of putting it, condemning israelis attack.

[CdocZ]

Originally Posted by car_fiend

there are hundreds more palestinians killed by israelis than there are israelis killed by palestinians.

Where did you see figures saying such? One should be wary of such numbers, because as one example shows, Fox News got itself into a bad spot back when suicide bombings were getting to a high point because they included the number of "non-Israeli's" killed in Palestinian-sponsored suicide bombings, in the number of people killed by Israeli retaliatory attacks (the country is considered to be 80% Israeli (whatever that means, because Arabic Israeli citizens are counted in the other 20%, but whatever to that odd detail)).

I am not saying you are wrong, by the way. I am simply wondering where you saw a statistic stating that the ratio of Israeli's killed by Palestinians to Palestinians killed by Israeli's, to be so obscenely lopsided. I would figure such a ratio to lean towards the Israeli's, yes, but probably not as strongly as if it was offset by hundreds.

[Zytek_Fan]

There's been some protesting at the Israeli Embassy in D.C.

[wwgkd]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

There's been some protesting at the Israeli Embassy in D.C.

Protesting (complaining) is America's national sport.

[Matra et Alpine]

The reasons the balance of injury/fatality is so huge is that currently the Palestinian extremists are launching bodged, home-made "rockets" across their borders with very little accuracy and no control once launched. So "aim" is a rather crude attempt.
Just from yesterday ...
South Israel: At least 20 Palestinian rockets landed, including in Ashkelon, Ashdod and Sderot. No casualties were reported but a house in Ashkelon was hit.
Compare that with earlier ...
Gaza City, Rafah, Khan Younis: Israel launches a wave of air and missile attacks on targets across Gaza. Some 225 people are killed, according to local medics. Most are policemen within the Hamas militant movement; police chief Tawfik Jaber is among the dead. Women and children also died, according to officials in Gaza.
( quotes taken from BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Map: Gaza and Israel conflict )

Israel forces are using high explosive, guided munitions into a much more heavily populated area. So logic suggests they will ALWAYS have a higher kill-rate. It's disproportionate force and they dont' seem to realise ( as Bush never got in Iraq ) that application of such offset-strength only creates more anger from the weaker opponent who then feels they have to do what they can to escalate and to "terrorise" to balance their lack of "shock and awe"

[BigNate]

Thanks for the link, was a good read indeed.

[CdocZ]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

It's disproportionate force and they dont' seem to realise ( as Bush never got in Iraq ) that application of such offset-strength only creates more anger from the weaker opponent who then feels they have to do what they can to escalate and to "terrorise" to balance their lack of "shock and awe"

I think Israel is starting to realize, however, considering the recent reviews of their munitions usage post the munition-related trouble they got into when they last went after Hezbollah in Lebanon. Ever since, they (or at least the government) have started paying more attention to what the military was actually doing, and with what they were doing it.

[Zytek_Fan]

Israel: Ground forces move into Gaza - Israel-Palestinians- msnbc.com

I'm sure the BBC has a better article on this. All the US-based ones seem Israeli biased...

[my porsche]

Originally Posted by roosterjuicer

95.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.

That's one of my favorite lines to use.

Anyway, trying to pass that link off as "the facts" is jesty.

Like Matra said, the Israelis are just better at warfare.

[Matra et Alpine]

Interesting quote from that link Z|ytek

At an emergency consultation of the U.N. Security Council on Saturday night, the U.S. blocked approval of a statement demanded by Arab countries that would have called for an immediate cease-fire. U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff said the U.S. believed that such a statement "would not be adhered to and would have no underpinning for success, (and) would not do credit to the council."

Sorry guys,m but America is the REAL problem with the UN.
They've just blocked ANOTHER attempt to make a stance and had the audacity to suggest that making a statement requiring a cease fire and Israeli forces to stop blockading humanitarian aid would "damage" them ??
FFS !!!!

Yes, the BBC "facts" have a slight less bias BUT the fact that Israel is blocking access to correspondents despite a court ruling otherwise will make true facts "difficult"
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israeli troops clash with Hamas

Originally Posted by bbc

Many world leaders have called for an immediate ceasefire, but the US has backed its ally, Israel.

A European Union delegation is beginning a visit to the region, and Russia says it will send its envoy.

Earlier the United Nations Security Council failed to agree a united approach to the crisis.

Diplomatic sources said the United States had blocked an agreement. US Ambassador Alejandro Wolff suggested that an official statement that criticised both Israel and Hamas would not have been helpful.

"not have been helpful" ... how can that person say that !!
ANYTHING at this time would be helpful ... except might it have made the UN look "good" ? Something the neo-cons never want

I wonder, A major military force once invaded a country because of attacks from across the border into a "Legitimate nation". At that time the US gave the Mujahadin guided missiles to neutralise air support and tank incursions. WOnder the "excuse" this time

[roosterjuicer]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Idespite a court ruling otherwise will make true facts "difficult"

perhaps i missed it...but what court ruled otherwise? an israeli court?