100mpg 5.0 Mustang

[P4g4nite]

Dunno if anyone has heard of Doug Pelmear and his claimed 100mpg(e) '87 5.0 Fox body Mustang, but he is due to enter a legit competition soon for practical; cars that are able to achieve fantastic mileage: Progressive Automotive X prize.

So whats the big deal?

Well, it is a 2850lb Fox body Mustang powered by what, essentially, is a 60's era 5.0 carb'd V8. and he claims:
*400hp
*500 feet torques
*180mph and 0-60 in 3 secs (depending on source)
and most importantly.
*100 (or 110) MPGe with the 'e' standing for equivalent as he runs E85.

He also claims his grandfather got the idea in the '40s.

You can read his site here. And visit his company Horsepowersales.net which seems to sell 'engine block girdles'.


Now, there seems to be a lot of people who've put their faith in this backyard mechanic, many news stations and newpapers have run features on him and but he hasn't given any clue as to what tech he has applied and the only 'tests' that have been made public is a small paper that was allowed to drive 100miles who claimed they saw 50mpg.
Now, I can see a 5.0 realistically getting respectable highway mileage if:
*Running a very tall ratio.
*Using very high compression (probable considering the E85 fuel) and long runner intake for maximum low down torque allowing him to cruise at near idle.
*Maybe some kind of cylinder deactivation (if it is multicarbed individual carbs could be shut down)

Doing this could net him quite respectable MPG for a 5.0, and my guess is that he has managed quite respectable numbers but is claiming utterly ridiculous numbers.

The site lists 3 awards for the car in 'show and shine' categories and the list of "achievements" includes:
* Identification of clear market need for larger horsepower engine with 100MPGe capability and lowest emissions that will not cause a complete change in the refueling and component part manufacturing infrastructures.
* In discussions with automotive OEMs on licensing or royalty contract.
* Letters of Intent secured from Specialty Car companies for purchase of the engines planned for our first 2 years of production.
* Mileage performance verification by cross country road test in October/November, 2008
* EPA testing validation by January, 2009
* IP filing and Trademark progress.
* RFQ’s have been submitted to approve manufacturing companies for a cost per unit production quote.
* Outsourced component part suppliers in place. All are U.S. companies.
* Competitor analysis undertaken to establish uniqueness of HP2G, LLC products.
* Vast media exposure achieved on NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN and PowerTV
* After-market customer base already established and growing.
* Development of Business Plan.
* Strategic Alliances for manufacturing in progress.

Well frankly most of the achievements are whoop-dee-doo.."Development of Business Plan"???Thats reassuring, as for the Vast media exposure, well lets not get into a discussion about the quality of news media in the States. I suspect the After-market customer base is the main reason we are all likely being trolled hard by this guy.

But I guess time will tell, the competition will be sure to examine the car more thoroughly than anyone so far has done and we'll learn if the girdle salesman has given people a lesson in credulity application or not.

[mclaren_crazy]

I saw that in person at the Detroit show, pretty cool to take a look at

[NSXType-R]

Yeah, I don't see how a 5 liter E85 running Mustang is going to get 100 mpg. Sure he'll get better fuel mileage than a comparable Mustang, but it sure as hell isn't beating a Prius, especially with those performance numbers. A Honda Fit has a way smaller engine and only gets 30 something on a good day.

Then again, I don't know what he did to his car. I'm skeptical though.

[RacingManiac]

E85 gets worse mileage usually than gasoline, period. I think its some fancy math in the equivelency that nets him the figure....

[MRR]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

E85 gets worse mileage usually than gasoline, period. I think its some fancy math in the equivelency that nets him the figure....

true...ethanol is a fundamentally inferior fuel (less energy density, corrosive, soluble with water, etc).

[RacingManiac]

He is claiming 85mpg on E85, so I am still wondering how exact is he doing this and whats so revolutionary about it. Though one of the question in Q&A asked where can one get an engine like this, he said in his online store he is selling the technology. Though the only thing for sale there is block stiffening bracing....

[clutch-monkey]

i wonder how you could reach 100mpg these days full stop.
if i put that 3 cylinder polo engine in my mini, i wonder what it would get?

[f6fhellcat13]

There aren't even any pictures with the hood open on his site...
What mileage does it get when fully utilizing the 400hp/500lbft?
I smell cow pat.

edIT:

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

i wonder how you could reach 100mpg these days full stop.

Redefine a gallon to about 4 times its current volume.

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

Redefine a gallon to about 4 times its current volume.

LOL
"so..they're like..imperial gallons...but..bigger."
maybe if he drives in a vacuum somehow, with no air resistance..

[Rockefella]

Like someone said, theanswer lies in the 'e' equivalence formula. Something stinks there.

[wwgkd]

Well, there was a guy back in the 60's or 70's who claimed 0-60 in 5 seconds and 100 mpg, but he did it with a supercharger and interheater. Which did work, for about a block or two. I think people are so desparate for something like this that they're willing to believe anything. There's all these theories about oil companies buying these 2 cent products that could double your mileage and then shelving them. People just don't realize that it doesn't work like that and keep believing in these miracle products and overlook the flaws.

[P4g4nite]

I'm not enough of an engineer to show how this claim probably breaks laws of physics, but from a common sense POV, every single thing about the car goes against the basic principles of making a car economical. It is a heavy, ancient chassis, no aero, even the tyres don't appear to be for reduced roll resistence, the engine is a giant inefficient boat anchor as opposed to a small, light turbo'd unit and he is running low energy density fuel.
From outside appearances, it's like he has done nothing to help the car work efficiently or make himself look credible. And yet read some of the comments in news articles and there is no shortage of people willing to believe him. Granted, those who believe him would probably believe him if he said his Mustang was using crystal harmonic technology that was given to him by space aliens.

But hey, the 100mpg carb is one of the oldest urban myths out there and the harder you laugh and the more you debunk, the more the credulous conspiracy theorists go into their shells, convinced of a coverup.

Anyway, just for fun here is:

the story of how plans for the carburetor designed by Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930 were recently re-discovered by a Cornish mechanic in a secret compartment of a toolbox he had been given...

IMO Doug is an epic troll.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

i wonder how you could reach 100mpg these days full stop.
if i put that 3 cylinder polo engine in my mini, i wonder what it would get?

You still wouldn't get 100mpg...

On the other hand there was that Lupo that could achive 2,99L/100km (79mpg) on the cobined cycle.

[P4g4nite]

Also...were those 80's Mustangs related much with XD onwards Falcons?

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by P4g4nite

Also...were those 80's Mustangs related much with XD onwards Falcons?

Apart from the 5L, barely anything i'd say.