Honda VFR1200 DCT

[f6fhellcat13]

The talk of hand controls for the disabled in the NSX thread got me to remembering that Honda's VFR1200 sports/tourer thing can be had with a dual clutch allowing one-legged bikers to ride. However, the whole transmission assembly dulls down the engine and adds significant weight, so from what I've read, it should only be purchased by those who need it.

Here's Kevin Ash's perspective.

Originally Posted by Kevin Ash

Car drivers want Dual Clutch Transmissions because those with manuals don't like waving their arms and legs about to find new ratios and the changes are slow. Those with conventional auto boxes are putting up with slushiness and reduced efficiency. A dual clutch system gives them the efficiency of a manual (well, closer to it than a torque converter) with super-rapid cog-swops and the option of paddle controlled manual or full automatic - finger wiggling in place of limb waving, much easier.

Changing gears on bikes though really isn't too tough. Wiggle your left toes and that's it. Upchanges, and even going the other way if you're good, can be done without wiggling your left fingers, leaving the clutch's prime duty as getting you off the line and a favored tool for airing the front wheel when necessary (like, there's a fit bird on the sidewalk).

Honda's DCT is novel and it's different, but given time you might start to wonder if the $1,500 you've added to the already hefty $15,999 price was really money well spent. Normal gearchanging wasn't so bad was it? And for a lot less you could have the same ultra-quick gearchanges with an ignition kill quickshift from the aftermarket. Get over the initial curiosity and you'll pine for a clutch lever, especially as DCT takes away the option of feathering the power with your left hand in very tight manoeuvres - full lock turns on the throttle alone aren't easy!

As for sport bikes, no way. Glue a second clutch on the end of the first, add two hefty hydraulic pumps to operate each and you've just bolted 22lbs onto a bike that already has more than enough avoir dupois. So maybe here on Shamu it's not noticed, but on a superbike - let alone a supersport 600 - that's like pulling a plug lead off. And worse, the extra mass is rotating with the crank, so the engine response is dulled.

It's a good couple of inches wider than the stock VFR engine too, which on a lean-happy Fireblade might cause some Tarmac interface problems.

Finally, as you're always riding with one of the clutches lifted and slipping, transmission efficiency's reduced and even bigger losses are incurred through the energy sapped by those hydraulic pumps. It's like the drag you get when you switch on your car's air conditioning.

YouTube - Honda dualclutch demonstration

YouTube - Honda dualclutch demonstration

Goldwing aside, I see and love bikes as spartan simplicity at its best, and hope this doesn't spread. However, bikers seem to be of a slightly different brand of people than most and, unlike the general populace, may be less accepting of this technology.

[Kitdy]

My friend got a ride on one - not sure if it was the DCT or not. I will have to ask him more about his ride.

[pimento]

Has there been any single clutch robotised manuals on bikes? It would seem to make sense to me if they can get the mass down and efficiency up sufficiently. Not to boast (ahem) but my postie is basically an automated clutch manual. It's a centrifical setup though, and tends to be a bit.. agricultural. Bleedin' easy to learn to ride on though, which was nice.

[f6fhellcat13]

By centrifugal, you mean if you rev it sufficiently the clutch begins engaging/engages?
The karts I drove way back whenever had a similar setup, and it made sense to me on those because they were single-speed, how does shifting work on the postie?

EDIT: Single clutch:

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)
Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

[pimento]

On the postie (

Honda CT110

Honda CT110
Honda CT110

) you shift as normal with the foot lever, you just don't have to pull a clutch lever. If you want to disengage the clutch for lulz, you can just depress the shifter a little bit. For normal up changes you just roll off the throttle, lift (or depress with the heel, it's a heel/toe shifter) the shifter and roll on. Downshifts are the same, you just depress the shifter, and blip the throttle for added smoothness.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by pimento

For normal up changes you just roll off the throttle, lift (or depress with the heel, it's a heel/toe shifter) the shifter and roll on. Downshifts are the same, you just depress the shifter, and blip the throttle for added smoothness.

You can do that on a bike with a normal clutch.

[pimento]

In that case the only difference is you can stop without grabbing clutch

[bhencetotozo]

The NSX's suspention was designed by Ayrton Senna right?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by bhencetotozo

The NSX's suspention was designed by Ayrton Senna right?

Hi there and wecome here.
As far as I know he was one of the various test drivers of this car, but I actually can't say if that's just another legend or a real fact.
For as regards the suspension's design, I doubt he had enough engineering knowledge to design it.

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by bhencetotozo

The NSX's suspention was designed by Ayrton Senna right?

I think he helped develop it, I don't think he designed it.