big engine and nothing else

[Wouter Melissen]

V8 engines aren't as heavy as you think, that is a big misconception. Displacement does not add weight. It's ancillilaries like turbochargers that add a lot of weight.
It's legislation that has forced many Japanese companies to keep displacement down; more displacement means more tax in Japan. The EVOs and Imprezas are mere competition derived cars where the regulations dictate the 2 litre limit. That's why the Japanese have specialized in building small high power engines. I have first hand experience with the fuel consumption of an EVO; it's horrendous, the range is limited to like 200 km on a 40 litres tank.
The V8s used by American companies are built for smooth cruising. They excell at that. These engines use about half the parts most Japanese 4 cylinder engines use and they are built to sustain hours and hours of driving through the desert.

You are comparing different engines like they were all built under the same legislation and for the same purpose, which is far from the truth. It's like bashing a Piper prop-airplane for not going supersonic.

[motorhead]

very true wouter - but you have to hand it to the japanese for building small engines with high HP outputs - damn right about feul economy but in america where it is $1 per gallon WHO CARES - in japan they had horsepower restictions to 290 and all the cars accelerated in like 4.0sec flat or the most 5.0sec(GTRs, NSXs, evos WRXs and now the 350z) they all were very fast and americans had to make do with 5 6 7 litre engines - but then again their cars have more standard and optional KIT, they weight heavier, they are obviously bigger dimentionally and some of them look better - both cars are for totally different classes - americans cars like you said are for cruising along the country side just enjoying the V8 burble and the cool breeze(if yours is a convertible - if not the AIR CON - HEHE)the japanese love to take it to the track for all out acceleration and top speeds and super fast lap times - they love twisty bits of roads(thats why there is 4 wheel drive)and love controlled oversteer - don't know why JAP people love oversteer but its fun anyway

[guyt_x]

why dont you go meander down some strait lonely road in the desert nice like a good little getto pimp daddy

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally posted by guyt_x
why dont you go meander down some strait lonely road in the desert nice like a good little getto pimp daddy

It's hard to admit you are wrong, isn't it?

[guyt_x]

shame

[Kudosdude]

V8 engines aren't as heavy as you think, that is a big misconception. Displacement does not add weight. It's ancillilaries like turbochargers that add a lot of weight.
It's legislation that has forced many Japanese companies to keep displacement down; more displacement means more tax in Japan. The EVOs and Imprezas are mere competition derived cars where the regulations dictate the 2 litre limit. That's why the Japanese have specialized in building small high power engines. I have first hand experience with the fuel consumption of an EVO; it's horrendous, the range is limited to like 200 km on a 40 litres tank.
The V8s used by American companies are built for smooth cruising. They excell at that. These engines use about half the parts most Japanese 4 cylinder engines use and they are built to sustain hours and hours of driving through the desert.

You are comparing different engines like they were all built under the same legislation and for the same purpose, which is far from the truth. It's like bashing a Piper prop-airplane for not going supersonic.

Correct.

Horses for courses.

I find the ignorance in some replies understandable (patriotism etc.) . . .

Okay some simple facts from machines at the top of their respective groups (not your regular hum-drum cars).


A 5.7 litre LS6 has 405 bhp. I have it on EXCELLENT authority that these will do 30 miles to the gallon on the highway. Official figures give 28+

A 2.0 litre turbocharged EVO VIII with 271 bhp manages 26 mpg freeway (also good authority). Official figures 28.

On engine weights (an ish I'm afraid, official figures are not available). LS6 = 226 kg. EVO = 170kg.

Any-one that wishes to dispute these MUST provide evidence. My facts are based on it.

[Nildo]

Nice work Kudosdude, figures don't lie. What I don't really get though, is why American manufacturers favour v8s over 10's and 12's. Sounds like a stupid question stupid right? But at the capacity they build a v8 in engineering terms more cylinders could be used to make the engine much more efficient/powerful, due to the engines ability to rev. This is my big criticism of US cars. Big engines are fine, but why not build a big engine while using brains?

Of course, no point going to the other extreme and building a small motor for the sake of a small motor either.

[crisis]

In the wash up both high tech forced induction 4 cylinders and low tech V8s give the same result. Good performance in the cars they power. As Ive said before you will find the turbo 4s powering smaller cars and V8s powering generally larger ones. guyt_x can choose what he wants to drive and if he likes small cars, buy a turbo 4. Others like bigger cars. Chevs alloy V8s like the LS1 are light and rev high for V8s (6000rpm) They are simple and cheap to produce and not so uneconomical as he may think. I returned 10l per 100km average on a 2000km interstate trip that included a bit of driving around towns and a fair bit of lead footing. A stock 4 cylinder cannot hope to match the power and torque available from a modern V8. They need high tech vvt turbos, intercoolers and need to be driven at their limit to produce the legendary perfomance everyone quotes. the result is a trade off in fuel economy. despite what guyt_x thinks theres no such thing as a free lunch. It isnt only air thats forced into the motor quicker when a turbos is working hard. Any extras also expose the engine to more possibilities of failure. Theres nothing wrong with turbo 4s and theres nothing wrong with big V8s.

[guyt_x]

if you look at bmw and what they get out of there bigger motors.

So if you gonna still use large capacity engine's thats fine but then get the motor to do somthing a smaller 2.0 litre cant.

bmw refuse to use turbo's and are producing great engines which blitz american engines in "power output to capacity" ratio

if you gonna go big make it do something

[crisis]

BMW E60 530 3.00lt 6cyl 172kw 300nm Germany
Chev Monte Carlo 3.7lt 6cyl 179kw 380nm US
Ford Mondeo 3.00lt 164kw 275nm UK

Im no fan of the Chev Monte Carlo but there is **** all difference when you consider the relative costs.

Where to now Guyt_x

[guyt_x]

there 0-100 speeds?

and tops speeds?

[Nildo]

BMW 330 (bit lighter than 530, same motor) 0-100 6.4
And it looks nice and is very comfy getting there.
On capacity terms, the chev monte is close to the ferrari 360 challenge stradale. Only the ferrari engineers (like I said before!) use more cylinders for equal capacity. The result? 317 kw.
Of course ferrari is a pretty extreme example, but there is nothing in that engine GM couldn't replicate if they tried.

[BPx]

Originally posted by Kudosdude
Correct.

Horses for courses.

I find the ignorance in some replies understandable (patriotism etc.) . . .

Okay some simple facts from machines at the top of their respective groups (not your regular hum-drum cars).


A 5.7 litre LS6 has 405 bhp. I have it on EXCELLENT authority that these will do 30 miles to the gallon on the highway. Official figures give 28+

A 2.0 litre turbocharged EVO VIII with 271 bhp manages 26 mpg freeway (also good authority). Official figures 28.

On engine weights (an ish I'm afraid, official figures are not available). LS6 = 226 kg. EVO = 170kg.

Any-one that wishes to dispute these MUST provide evidence. My facts are based on it.

Where are you getting that weight for the LS6? This LS1 http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...ckV8s/LS1.html only weighs 390lbs, 176.9kg, and even though that's an out-of-crate weight (no fluids), there's no way fluids will add that much weight to an engine. Plus the fact that the LS6 is nearly identical to the LS1, a weight gain like that is impossible. This engine kit is for a complete engine, too.

[Kudosdude]

The engine weights (dressed) are here

Engine weights are very subjective; I have used the heaviest listing I could find to try and remove any chance of Bias.

I have to admit the LS6 is my favourite engine.

[BPx]

Originally posted by Kudosdude
The engine weights (dressed) are here

Engine weights are very subjective; I have used the heaviest listing I could find to try and remove any chance of Bias.

I have to admit the LS6 is my favourite engine.

I've seen this page before. Looks like they're weighing the engine with the transmission on it. The giveaway is where they have two separate weights for "Auto" and "Manual". There's nothing on the engine that needs to be changed for the car to be auto or manual, it's likely they are just including the transmission.