Top Gear - Racist Comments

[henk4]

let's hope they will read the above, and come up with a more clever reaction than Clarkson has produced so far.

[crisis]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

crsis ... if you lot would stop throwing away Ashes matches *I* would get back to calling them POMS too

ha ha, But your slings and arrows are wasted on the likes of me. I could care less about cricket my friend.
Anyhow, some of the, no not nicest, something else, but I have a few pommy friends. In fact i am the direct descendant of one, being my late Grandmother.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by crisis

ha ha, But your slings and arrows are wasted on the likes of me. I could care less about cricket my friend.
Anyhow, some of the, no not nicest, something else, but I have a few pommy friends. In fact i am the direct descendant of one, being my late Grandmother.

I always knew that there had to be something wrong with you.....

[crisis]

Originally Posted by DesmoRob

Its true. The only problem with using the media to joke around like TopGear does is that you get a lot of people upset by not being politically correct, or in this case for taking a jab at someone's nationality.
Jokes will always have a place in our world, but they will also have a time. Typically that time and place is between friends that enjoy having a good laugh at each another's expense.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Comedians also perform to similarly large audiences and can be similalrly offensive. These guys and the idiots on our footy show however are not comedians. It is not their craft. Yet on these kind of shows they attempt to be. And often their crass lack of flair or sophistication can offend some and make others cringe.

Originally Posted by DesmoRob

However, if some random person on the street decided to call me a Nazi, then chances are I'd get a little upset depending on my mood that day.

Thats not really humour. That would be a personal insult.

Originally Posted by DesmoRob

That's why I can understand that people get offended when jokes are made about them. They only get offended because the jokes are made by people that don't know them personally and/or haven't even seen them in their lives.
That said, of course its still good to have a sense of humor about it, but everyone has a bad day sometimes, and being poked fun at by some random group of idiots can escalate that.

In the end you live and die by your words. I do find those who tend to make a hobby of being offended a little tiresome however it is also true that you cant tell people what they should or should not be offended by. And I would say that the comments they made could not have been made without having some knowledge of their potentail for offence.

[crisis]

Originally Posted by henk4

I always knew that there had to be something wrong with you.....

English Grandmother married to 3rd or so generation Aussie of Scottish descent. Other side is about 3 or so generation Aussie again of pommy descent cross with South African with some ties back to Portugal.
I sir ar 100% mongrel!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by crisis

English Grandmother married to 3rd or so generation Aussie of Scottish descent. Other side is about 3 or so generation Aussie again of pommy descent cross with South African with some ties back to Portugal.
I sir ar 100% mongrel!

Adam and Eve would have been proud of you

[Sauc3]

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ. (<=== "LORD'S" NAME IN VAIN! zOMG!)

Racism and being offended are two things that are taught to us as we grow up. Along with things like table manners, being ashamed of yourself and how to tie your shoelaces.
Do you think that the arctic fox says to his buddies when he sees a grey fox amble past, "Hey guys! Look at that old n*****!"(<==== Censored for those people who get offended from reading a word. I'd REALLY hate for that to happen.). Or that they all look at the red fox and exclaim 'GINGER!'? Do you think that normal tigers chase down and kill albino tigers for use in witchdoctor prosperity potions? Of course not.
Only humans can take something as ridiculously innocent as a person's colour and heritage and turn it into the most offensive thing on the planet at that moment, warranting calls of... taking money forcibly because someone spoke and... possible loss of revenue from ads.... OH NO!
Then comes hypocrisy of Mr. Steve Coogan then taking a high and mighty approach of dignified criticism about these buffoonish antics in an article which he directly 'offends' 4 people in personal attacks. Oh, but those were tongue in cheek weren't they? Well that's all right then.
But it really isn't, because where he's claiming Mr. Rob Brydon is talentless and unfunny and accusing sir Hammond of something I believe the Brits refer to as 'buggery', is supposed to be an article about taking remarks about people too far.

The day people can learn that words mean so much less than actions (Sticks and stones anyone? They have more range and leave lovely bruises.) is the day wars stop. And people stop caring what others think of them and just do what's good for themselves, mentally OR physically.
Basically, harden the **** up or get off the internet. And TV. Probably radio too. Not to mention newspapers. Best avoid social situations too.

Signing off, The Flying Dutchman (douchebag), who's just come from a romp with several prostitutes and 5 handfuls of 'brownies' and no I won't get off this high horse, it's a great place to rest my keyboard. Oh, and I speak with a lishp. But only in English.

[Matra et Alpine]

Humourous and well written sir.

Problem is animals can DO worse than saying things to those NOT recognisable as "them".
They will ostracise them from packs and often kill them

SO not "Only humans" .... though the much lower level of name calling I accept but only coz I dont actyually know what a penguin is saying !

Coogan's is using examples to highlight the original complaint clearer to the parties involved and a failry normal method to highlight hypocrisy.

"sticks and stones" are fine, when both parties realise that.
When there are spectators it's not as they can't know the difference.
So I refute the analogy you use there good sir

Stereotyping however is not just name calling and is the continuation of a derogatory view of nation/race/person. Where it is used in hunour everyone will half smile for sure.
BUT, as is repeated often ... this time TG went too far with it. A couple of times the fun part woudl be there ... after the third time it was likE watching a gang of upper class snobs in Oxford prep school beat up on the kid from the local scheme before they buggar him.
( Now is that stereotype funny ? NO )

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by Sauc3

The Flying Dutchman (douchebag)

quoted for accuracy

[Sauc3]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Humourous and well written sir.

Problem is animals can DO worse than saying things to those NOT recognisable as "them".
They will ostracise them from packs and often kill them

SO not "Only humans" .... though the much lower level of name calling I accept but only coz I dont actyually know what a penguin is saying !

Coogan's is using examples to highlight the original complaint clearer to the parties involved and a failry normal method to highlight hypocrisy.

"sticks and stones" are fine, when both parties realise that.
When there are spectators it's not as they can't know the difference.
So I refute the analogy you use there good sir

Stereotyping however is not just name calling and is the continuation of a derogatory view of nation/race/person. Where it is used in hunour everyone will half smile for sure.
BUT, as is repeated often ... this time TG went too far with it. A couple of times the fun part woudl be there ... after the third time it was likE watching a gang of upper class snobs in Oxford prep school beat up on the kid from the local scheme before they buggar him.
( Now is that stereotype funny ? NO )

The point was made to the name calling, and certainly no level of violence was implied in that statement. On the topic of violence I think that humans have more than proven to be disgusting and frankly terrible subjects, time and time again, and even animals that do these horrible things such as ostracizing and eating young look tame in comparison.
Just imagine for a second though that that's all that humans did. We didn't disagree over religion (Didn't have any? Wishful thinking perhaps... If forced, I'd want Terry Pratchett to choose the single defining religion.), didn't HAVE terms that defined people in a negative light racially. What if humans solved their territory disputes one on one, likewise with woman troubles?
Hitler would have appreciated his fellow Germans and neighbours. Israelis and Palestinians would not currently be ruining what is supposed to be one of the most beautiful countries on earth. England wouldn't have fought the wars they had, killing the millions of people they did. America and their natives would have remained a peaceful and healthy nation, the Asian countries would have been unspoilt by horrible dictators and people would be.... overrunning the earth in their tens of billions. Oh dear god that's not right...

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the guys at TG aren't dropping molotov bread baskets on Mexicans, they're not directing their supposed insults at anyone in specific, and not even at the NEW stereotypes that Mexicans have attracted in recent years. If anything the stereotypes they're referring to currently relates to the views reflecting the human extras on a Warner Brothers show featuring a mouse who's name shall remain unspoken for fear of racial stereotyping.
So, a Mexican native has heard the statements made about noone in specific in their country. What will they do? Be upset that someone they've never met and most likely will never meet has said something that they're interpreting as a derogatory remark defaming their specific character, and that their life will be affected by it greatly because of mental problems associated with a slight bit of name calling?
Or, will they think it obvious that noone watching the show takes the remarks seriously, then go about their day perpetuating present day stereotypes?

Saying that three middle aged TV presenters in England have defamed a country across the Atlantic Ocean with a couple of supposedly offensive remarks is admitting that the very people becoming offended are giving the presenters too much power over them.




On a bit more of a tangent, I haven't seen a single complaint about the first scene of said episode, where the entire modern Australian population are compared to the convicts that originally populated this nation AND TREATED AS SUCH. Then called one of the men 'festively plump', but not as nicely as I've just put it. THEN May viciously and maliciously ridiculed the Australians for their accent.
Not to mention all of the remarks about *deep breath* Afghanistan, Albania, America, Australia, Austria, Belgium, China, France, Germany, Greece, Iran, Iraq, Ireland (all of the GB come to think of it), Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Romania (OK, this one did get some complaints), Russia, Switzerland and Vietnam. I'm sure I've left one or two out, and some may have worse remarks about them than others, but these are just some of the obvious countries that have stereotypes that TG have undoubtedly made potentially offensive remarks about. How come Steve Coogan isn't jumping out of his seat to defend them?
Why does Mexico deserve special attention when it comes to defending offensive stereotypes when so many other nations have suffered under the oppressive thumb of the villainous Top Gear rulers?

(Note: This isn't aimed specifically aimed at you Matra, I'm not striking up a personal argument but rather posing a lot of hypotheticals about why people act and react the way they do.)

[Matra et Alpine]

no probs, we're discussing it

I think the "ashes" episode got away with it's excess stereotypes as each were giving as they got. If you watch the Aussie version of that visit it's equally funny and makes MANY more digs on the "bruce" v "nigel" front.

Yes, we'd love an idealised world utopia. But ain't ever going to happen. So have to "make best" with what we have.

Coogan himself accepted that humour WILL use stereotypes, but brought to attention how it cant be unconstrained and it's cheap and easy to overstep.

Nobody has ever said that a couple of Mexican comments were the end of the world.
But the consistent part is that it was in excess.

The comment on the power of the presenters is valid IF those complaining are donig on their own behalf. But I've not seen many Mexican posters complain. All seem to be those with a social conscience of what is and isn't acceptable. So they have the power and using it to reign in the excesses of the TG team in this case

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Sauc3

Why does Mexico deserve special attention when it comes to defending offensive stereotypes when so many other nations have suffered under the oppressive thumb of the villainous Top Gear rulers?

Probably you will know the Dutch saying about the the jug and the time it can stay in the water. (until it bursts). Perhaps the jab at the Mexicans was the proverbial drop that made the balance tilt and the next time the "funny three" may choose another anonymous victim, the protests might become louder and louder. I doubt the culprits may ever admit that they could be the slightest bit more moderate in their exporessions as they seem to be so full of praise for themselves that the thoughts/opinions of other people are only of the most remote interest to them.

Anyway. I have stopped watching them.

[MRR]

Originally Posted by whiteballz

Awesome response by Clarkson.

I think the world needs more people with his outlook.

People just need to grow some thicker skin and get over it. The Mexicans make racist jokes about Americans and white people all the time but it is all broadcast in Mexico or on Spanish language AM radio that no one listens to. Honestly who cares? If people don't want to watch their show than don't but you shouldn't call for censorship just because you might be offended (remember the South Park Muhammad episode that was pulled we can't end freedom of speech just to accommodate an unhappy minority). If the show is truly off color, lacks humor, and genuinely racist than it will go away because people will stop watching it because we all can choose what material we will expose ourselves to.

ps typing with a broken arm is kinda difficult

[Badsight]

Originally Posted by Sauc3

Israelis and Palestinians would not currently be ruining what is supposed to be one of the most beautiful countries on earth.

id say Bora Bora has more north american land buyers than mediterranean's

because you cant possibly be meaning the pile of rocks that is palestine!

interestingly , this year the earths population will pass 7 billion . & that if every single person was given enough elbow space to dance in , the lot of us would still fit inside of texas

with the falling fertility rates around the world , there are already countrys failing to meet replacement birth rates . india should drop to a replacement birth rate by the 2040's . feeding 9 billion is entirely doable. its just we cant have 9 billion people living like the USA's 300 million currently do

[Clivey]

Originally Posted by Niko_Fx

Saw this on another site... does anybody have the link to Clarkson's comments?

Originally Posted by whiteballz

Awesome response by Clarkson.

I think the world needs more people with his outlook.

Originally Posted by DesmoRob

^^ call me ignorant, but I LOLd at that lol. The man makes a good point.

...which is precisely what I was trying to say earlier.

Originally Posted by Sauc3

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ. (<=== "LORD'S" NAME IN VAIN! zOMG!)



Racism and being offended are two things that are taught to us as we grow up. Along with things like table manners, being ashamed of yourself and how to tie your shoelaces.

Do you think that the arctic fox says to his buddies when he sees a grey fox amble past, "Hey guys! Look at that old n*****!"(<==== Censored for those people who get offended from reading a word. I'd REALLY hate for that to happen.). Or that they all look at the red fox and exclaim 'GINGER!'? Do you think that normal tigers chase down and kill albino tigers for use in witchdoctor prosperity potions? Of course not.

Only humans can take something as ridiculously innocent as a person's colour and heritage and turn it into the most offensive thing on the planet at that moment, warranting calls of... taking money forcibly because someone spoke and... possible loss of revenue from ads.... OH NO!

Then comes hypocrisy of Mr. Steve Coogan then taking a high and mighty approach of dignified criticism about these buffoonish antics in an article which he directly 'offends' 4 people in personal attacks. Oh, but those were tongue in cheek weren't they? Well that's all right then.

But it really isn't, because where he's claiming Mr. Rob Brydon is talentless and unfunny and accusing sir Hammond of something I believe the Brits refer to as 'buggery', is supposed to be an article about taking remarks about people too far.



The day people can learn that words mean so much less than actions (Sticks and stones anyone? They have more range and leave lovely bruises.) is the day wars stop. And people stop caring what others think of them and just do what's good for themselves, mentally OR physically.

Basically, harden the **** up or get off the internet. And TV. Probably radio too. Not to mention newspapers. Best avoid social situations too.



Signing off, The Flying Dutchman (douchebag), who's just come from a romp with several prostitutes and 5 handfuls of 'brownies' and no I won't get off this high horse, it's a great place to rest my keyboard. Oh, and I speak with a lishp. But only in English.

+1. Some people need to "grow a pair" for sure.