The Best of Both Worlds: A new form of forced induction

[Ferrari Tifosi]

About a year ago I heard about a new form of Forced Induction. It was similar to a turbocharger and a supercharger. It was set up in a centrifugal design like a turbo. Instead of running on exhaust gases though, it used hydrolic fluid (or some other fluid) to spin the turbine, and the fluid was pumped through an electric pump. So basically it had the response of supercharger, but it wouldn't drain power off the crank.

I wanted to know if anyone else had heard of this design and what your thoughts are on this design.

[SilverG35SportC]

Sounds pretty awesome to me. Have there been any test on any vehicles? Where did you read this??!!

[Ferrari Tifosi]

I read about it in a magazine called Sport Compact Cars (great magazine), and I believe they tested in on a Nissan Maxima (as strange as that sounds).

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

This is extremely intresting, the electricity would have to be generated by the engine itself though, not unlike a hybrid vehicle this energy can come from the engine when it's idling or moving at whatever speed. If they can perfect this design you would be able to monitor your boost levels on the fly. Perhaps a belt driven design would be best since it would be the easiest to maintain and it would put a much lower load on the electric motor.

[Egg Nog]

Well, it sounds like a new type of supercharger. One of the benefits of a turbo, of course, is that it takes power from moving exhaust gases, which would usually be wasted. Whatever sort of fluid system they've used, it's certainly going to take away from the rotational energy of the engine somehow, so it's certainly not the best of both worlds...

Until I get any more details, this sounds somewhat strange...

By the way, I just had to post this screenshot. Totally weird.


EDIT: I just realised that you were talking about electric supercharging systems... there's an interesting article about them here... not sure about the whole fluid thing though... http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/
The biggest problem is that you have to upgrade your battery system and alternator. It seems to have a lot more potential as a part-time use part than anything else.

[Ferrari Tifosi]

Yes, since its run by an electric pump it wouldn't drain off the engine's power. However, y'all are correct in stating the problem with the need of upgrades in the battery and alternator fields.

[Matra et Alpine]

Sorry guys, but alternators take LOTS of power from an engine if they're rated to GIVE that amount of power.

A belt driven hydraulic pump will run at MORE efficiency than a conversion to electric and then BACK to hydraulic would do. And better than conversion to electric and the possibility of direct drive compressor.

The belief that alternators don't take alot of power is because we're used to them running at VERY little power drain. So they're not asked to do a lot of work ( 100amp is typical ) That's only 1200w of work. If you run your car at idle and turn on ALL the electrics you will notice the engine note drop. It's having to WORK.

Don't have numbers for the energy input needs of any of the blowers but it will be high if you want LOTS of comprssions !! ( Anyone have te numbers to hand ? )

So for this to work it will need a BIGGER alternators ( factor of 10 at least I'd estimate ). That will drain power from the engine when it's needed. The extra weight's a hassle too.

The other option is to store energy over a LONG period of time and then deliver it to the compressor only when needed. Then the alternator isn't needing to provde the PEAK power, only the average. This sounds good except that we don't have great etechnology for storing electrical charge So we'd need BIG, BIG batteries and that's weight again It's also the approach used by the German race teams in the 30s. Conpressors which were engaged by a clutch. But they came across cars with them permanently engaged and couldn't compete. So they would engage them all the time and then found they weren't capable of providing the power for the long term. THAT would befall a storage system too. )

When energy efficiency comes into it, sometimes the old ways are still the best.
Great technology, ANOTHER guage for the ricer to put on his A-pillar but still a way away from being feasble I reckon.

[Egg Nog]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Sorry guys, but...

Well, obviously there's no free lunch As I said before...

Originally Posted by Egg Nog

It seems to have a lot more potential as a part-time use part than anything else.

Wait, were you talking to me or someone else?

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Egg Nog

Well, obviously there's no free lunch As I said before...



Wait, were you talking to me or someone else?

You had already covered it, I was jsut adding a bit more details.
In part to ask the question does anyone know how much energy a blower actually takes ? Gotta be a few HP anyway.

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

You had already covered it, I was jsut adding a bit more details.
In part to ask the question does anyone know how much energy a blower actually takes ? Gotta be a few HP anyway.

Well that depens on so many varables...type? application blah blah blah...on the engine anyliser i have it has mech eficcency lost to a blower...but as i said its all diffrent....

[cp01ae]

With all the power drain and extra weight, it seems like a sequential turbo set up is still better for everyday as it helps to eliminate turbo lag and seems to be quite a bit lighter than this set-up.