This month's Octane

[Guibo]

...is killer.

Ferrari 250 series, with 10 specimens being gathered for photography.


Also featured:
Emerson Fittipaldi's Lotus type 72
Le Mans Classic
3000 miles in Ford's GT supercar
Bentley Countryman (same as can be found here:
http://www.maxted-pageandbaxter.com/...countryman.htm )

Stirling Moss & Jodie Kidd (nice legs!) with Ferrari 225S & BMW 328



Preview of next month:
Stirling Moss & David Coulthard (not so nice legs) w/SLR's

[Wouter Melissen]

Is that the one where they tell Giotto Bizzarini designed the 250 GTO ?

[DasModell]

lol ..
anyway . i've got a number of Octane(thanks to henk ) .. and it's a good magazine . at least compared to what i;m used to read

[cmcpokey]

im just upset that they dont include the TR and the other race versions that were so very very cool

[Wouter Melissen]

The TR has a different engine and chassis compared to the 250 GT, the 250 GTO is a combination of the TR engine and a modified GT chassis.

[drakkie]

gotta say, it seems a good magazine to me, where can i get it here ?

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

Is that the one where they tell Giotto Bizzarini designed the 250 GTO ?

Yeah, that's the one.

From what I've read, it was Sergio Scaglietti and Mauro Forghieri who did the final design work (based on Bizzarrini's initial design plans and his chassis). Is this correct?

[Wouter Melissen]

Forghieri and Bizzarrini are both engineers, Bizzarrini was mainly responsible for the modified chassis and the TR engine. The shape evolved under testing and some wind tunnel stuff. The 'wing' on the rear was not fitted on the first car, but later bolted on and incorporated in later cars' bodies. So there is not one designer to quote for this car, which is confusing for magazines like Octane. Scaglietti just built the bodies, like they usually did for Ferraris.

[Guibo]

Ah, interesting. Yes, I've read the Kamm tail was added for stability later at the request of Richie Ginther.
But wasn't Bizzarrini both an engineer and a designer? I've seen numerous sources giving credit to Bizzarrini for the GTO (erroneously, evidently), on both sides of the Atlantic. Some of the stuff I've read come from the Ferrari forums, like this one which describes what happened after Bizzarrini's "walkout":
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

[Wouter Melissen]

If Bizzarini was such a good designer, then why are all of his car built under his own designed by others? Reading through an old Road and Track, which had Phil Hill talking about the GTO, he referred to Bizzarrini being busy in the dyno-room.

I know it's hard to accept that there just can't be named a single designer for the car many consider the most beautiful ever constructed.

[Guibo]

R&T...I have a special issue they did devoted to Ferraris, published in Oct '89, where they write that the GTO was "designed principally by Giotto Bizzarrini." Yet two months later, in their special review of the GTO, F40, and Daytona, they specifically credit Scaglietti. So yeah, it's confusing. If we go by the f-chat forum discussion, and the R&T articles paying close attention to keywords like "principally," it seems the case can be made that Bizzarrini did the initial work in modifying the 250 SWB, turning it into what would eventually be the GTO. Yet the fact that he walked out before the project ended leads credence to the theory that the GTO, in its finalized form, was largely the result of Forghieri, Scaglietti, the factory, and input from test drivers.

From what I have seen, Bizzarrini was a marginal designer (having worked for GM in Europe and USA), but a designer nevertheless. Probably that's why others did his design work.

[Wouter Melissen]

Yeah it's easy to label it Scaglietti or Bizzarini, saves three paragraphs of explaining and it's not completely wrong, but it's far from correct either.

[Coventrysucks]

The November issue is a good one, actually spurred me into buying it for a change.
A couple of articles about Goodwood revival; Rowan Atkinson's Jaguar MkVII, Mark Hales in an Iso Grifo Bizzarrini.
Sir Sterling Moss and David Coulthard drive the Mercedes 300SLR/ Mercedes SLR McLaren, Mercedes W196 Stromlinienwagen, The Aston Martin DB5 V8, and Stig Blomqvist driving seven Group B rally cars; Audi Quattro A2, Lancia 037, Peugeot 205 T16, MG Metro 6R4, Lancia Delta S4 and Ford RS200, although you don't get much in the way of driving impressions.

[islero]

Here is what I know: Bizzarini was halfway through designing the gto( they even had completed some prototypes), but he soon participated in the mass walkout of Ferrari engineers. Bodywork was by Scaglietti.