Super car parts list

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by jcp123

We're "selling" it?!? Nobody told me that...that does change the picture a bit now.

Good point, I'd presumed so because it was a 'supercar' E-N asked for and not a 'concept'. Come on Shawn we need to know

Never occurred to me to use a diesel of a hybrid in there

Why not, if you really want low end torque it's hard to beat electric induction motors.
BUT we'd never get it in the price limits
And I was being naughty suggesting diesel as it's fine in a 'concept' but WAY too heavy (curretnly) for a car. hard to "design in lightness" with that kind of engine block

130kg is pretty dang light for any powerplant

ATHT inlcude the COMPLETE drivetrain and transaxle !!
Hence why I've asked what does an LS1 tranni, 'box and diff turn in ??

With its mass-production background, it would seriously be less risky than going with a pretty unknown powerplant (i had definitely never heard of it).

Not really valid for not shoosing, Many folks in the US are completely unaware of 80% of the great cars available in other countries. So few are aware of ProDrive or many of the developers of the technology running in American race cars even . The Radical is pretty much bullet-proof already, why should this variant of the engine be worse ?
We've already identified the 'risk' and awating Shawn's comments on the service expectations of the car.

Plus, on the street, I'm still not completely convinced that it would have the grunt needed to move it at more than economy car pace off the line.

Totally dependnat on weight.
Yep, moving 3 tons woudl be hard, moving 500kg would be a dawdle
if it has ANY aspirations to performance I'm a Chapman advocate and woudl suggest lowering weight rather than increasing power as a way to success.
Or as already suggested, we coudl just be creating another Veyron !!

I'd like to see some figures on what it can do from idle to maybe 3k or so, right where you use it on the street, if indeed it is to see any decent amount of street time.

Radical SR8
Suggests it's pretty feable below 2000
So there could be a difficulty selling it in "low-revving markets".
But is it a supercar or a soccer-parent car ?
Does it evoke passion or put the driver to sleep ?
Also we're all assuming manual box here so youwoulnd't pull away from less then 1200-1500 even in a big engine to prevent clutch judder so is it all that big a stretch ?

P.S. 4500rpm is low end?!? Hell, my car shifts at 4400!

Well as you see if you go to the above link to the post I'd already referred to, that's where it's substantially flat from - the 'important' part for accelerating through the gears. So equal flat torque over a 6,000 rev band gives HUGE tolerance for gear selection and make for easy yet responsive driving in town and track. An engine with a 3000 rev flat torque band needs twice the number of gears to achieve the same - or it loses some tractabililty.

BUT and we will keep coming back to this - what does the 'target market' look for in their supercar. If it's lots of torque how will it ever sell against the dozens of supercars already providing that ? So far NOBODY has produced a supercar in the Colin Chapman mould. My input was that with the Powertec and the approach taken in the Radical, Deronda, Lotus, Caterham et al it should be possible to carve a niche in the supercar market by offering the lightweight and matching power for the performance mated to an evocative body shape, practical interior and sexy name ( if we get 3 out of 4 we'd still be winning )

[kko]

This was supposed to be a parts list so we could tally up our weight and price to see if we could meet the criteria!

[megotmea7]

a redacal V8 just seems unfeasable to me, on a peice of paper it seems like a good idea, but in practice on an actual car it doesnt, ive seen the 30 hours before rebuild part, doesnt sound very exiting to me. you could rev an LS1 to rredline all day and not need a rebuild for a long time, its a proven engine, and it doesnt need ot be reved to redline to extract maximum performance, even if the radical V8 was babied but it was bounced off the rev limiter i a few tmes around the track that means you've already sustained a relativly substantial amount of damage compared to say an LS1. even if we used a "street" version of this motor the redline would be dropped and so would power and torque along with it. this is unacceptable on a road car. lower power/torque, less reliable, and it would probly suck gas like no other. not to mention its power would be harder to extract than an engine with a lower redline/more torque. if the car we're LS1 powered youd have pulling power in any gear with the press of the accelerator at practicaly any rpm. id be willing ot trade of all these advantages for any weight difference between the motors or any bragging rights that may be pulled from having a high reving, DOHC, motorcycle derived, low displacment motor. the powertec V8 is a great design but not proven, not on sale, and not practical on our supercar or on a street car :-\

[megotmea7]

oh and just for reference an LS1 aluminum block weighs ~85lbs. ill try and get an aproximate weight for our LS1 long block. i hardly belive it will be the big heavyweight you make it out to be . and its physical size will be matters of inches comapred to the powertec