Supercar Engine Poll

[Slicks]

Originally Posted by CdocZ

wow, which zo6 is that? that and the vipers power bands are pretty big

2002-2004 Z06.
Thats the idea, usable power....

[CdocZ]

matra said that?! wow, not who i was expecting......

[Slicks]

Originally Posted by CdocZ

matra said that?! wow, not who i was expecting......

lol, you dont know him very well then...

EDIT: why do you think were having this debate?

[Hjholter3]

Originally Posted by CdocZ

wait......who was it who said the vette and viper dont handle too well? whoever it is, thats a pretty retarded statement, and if it was hjholter, VERY retarded as your an america, and those 2 cars are VERY famous over here. saying those 2 cars dont handle well is like saying the holocaust never happened. its just sheer ignorance and stupidity and inability to look at numbers. road and track recently did a test, american spec lotus elise vs. the dodge viper, viper ended up almost outhandling the elise in the turns and corners, and the elise is one good little sonuvabitch when it comes to handling.

I would never say that. I admire the Corvette ( and to a lesser extent, the Viper ). I'm just curious to know how all the Euro's can say these cars 'don't handle well' or aren't good cars based on technology when all they can put forward is interior fitament, and the Corvette or Vipers use of 'old' technology.

but again, to each their own.

[CdocZ]

lol, i was mostly jokin when i said you might have said it, your too pro american really to say something like that. im still suprised that matra said that

[Hjholter3]

Originally Posted by Turbonutter55

You are calling a Lotus Elise a ricer.

Don't even. I called Power-to-weight a ricer excuse when used to put a 190 horse 4 cylinder 'sports car' as a better car than the Corvette.

That should be a crime.

It is my opinion.

Otherwise your 400-horse Corvette would be beaten in a quarter-mile by a 460-horse Peterbilt!

IF it was beaten and then called power to weight, I'd laugh and call the Corvette owner a Ricer...

[quote]
The reason why European sports cars are not all 6-liter monsters (like you think a sports car has to be to qualify) is that European roads are twisty, and gas costs $6 a gallon.[quote]
Twisty eh? Maybe you guys need to work on that. Your gas is so expensive because your Government taxes the **** out of it, and you pay it and don't try to find a better way to be taxed.

This means that European designers have to THINK about how to make their car perform, rather than just adding 100 extra cubic inches. British roads require handling, and a muscle-car against a native product on a Welsh B-road will be eaten for breakfast. Each car is designed for use in its own country, but British cars can compete overseas.

Who put a musclecar on a B-road? I can't help but laugh everytime you say anything that points to the Corvette or Viper being musclecars, 'cause where I'm from, a musclecar is a 60's through early 70's Domestic with Cubic inches, not a modern sports car.
And I don't think A Corvette or a Viper would get 'Eaten for breakfast' but if you can post a video showing that, please do.
also, someone said the roads where the same everywhere in Europe.. so where are the Autobahns? I mean, if you guys can't build a decent road, that is your problem, but the Autobahn is the closest you'll find to the beautifully long and straight roads you'll find here in Tennessee, and hell, even the curves are nice.

[CdocZ]

well....the viper is actually considered a muscle car. 505 cubic inch engine, front mounted, simple OHV 2-valve per cylinder engine, and the whole series was originally started off with the help of carroll shelby, to create a true heir to the shelby cobra's legend. only thing wrong with it, is when it was made.

[Slicks]

Originally Posted by CdocZ

well....the viper is actually considered a muscle car. 505 cubic inch engine, front mounted, simple OHV 2-valve per cylinder engine, and the whole series was originally started off with the help of carroll shelby, to create a true heir to the shelby cobra's legend. only thing wrong with it, is when it was made.

Id say the Viper is a raw sports car. 2 seats, IRS, RWD. And Carrol Shelby is even more proof, having built sports cars for a long time.

[CdocZ]

meh, i count it as muscle car, with a few sports car traits (like its handling)

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Slicks

Here, if this is what it takes to shut you up then so be it. Dont expect anything else.
Elise
Peak HP- 7800RPMs - 20% - 6240RPMs
Peak TQ-6800RPMs - 20% - 5440RPMs
Z06
Peak HP- 6000RPMs - 20% - 4800
Peak TQ- 48000RPMs - 20% - 3840
Viper SRT-10
Peak HP - 5600RPMs -20% - 4480
Peak TQ - 4600RPMs - 20% - 3680

and WHICH has the wider torque band then Slicks.

So your earlier 'guess' was way off.

Thansk for getting the facts, see I already knew those. BUT you didn't. it was you that needed to read it. WHY did it take so much effort from another UCPer for you to look up the information you were wrong about ?

See if I'd just told you that you'd have gone into one of your tirades and demanded facts. Facts I already knew. I couldn't ahve told you the precise revs, but talking to guys who drive and race i know these things.

I hope these are teaching you some maturity that will help your understanding and in future you'll undertake to check things without have to be dragged screaming and kicking to the information

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Slicks

That was Marte, and he doesnt go by the numbers, they supposedy "show nothing" although they are used by every magazine.
As my post above states, Ive asked him before to prove they dont handle good, and he has yet to respond to that statement (which has been asked numerous times.)
Just sit back and see what he comes up with.

I'm fed up answering it Slicks and you don't accept the conditions.

On raods that suit a vette it handles well.

on roads that DONT suit vettes it doesn't.

A yump , an off-camber hairpin.
The long wheelbase measn it grounds out.
The long bonnet makes plkacing the car at the apex on tight roads difficult.
The width limits the choice a driver has to open out a corner.

The weight limits the opportunity for mid-corner correction.

it IS a criticism of the vette ( and Viper ) that they cannot handle those types of rodas well. That sdoens't detract from their handling on other roads and I've always said that.

You are blinded by fanboyism thatr I DARE to say they;re not great in all cases.

This is another fruitless point with you SLicsk. Sorry but you don't have a clue WWHAT you are talking about. You've read some mags and think you have a passing knowledge of driving a performance car and how to setup and utilise a cars capability.

So you try to dismiss all I say as if I've always said its rubbis. I've only done it comparatively and identifued the limitatiosn it has.

you jsut keep banging on about things that ONLY reflect it's positive.

When you have the maturity to judeg postive and accept negative you'll be in a better position to defend the cars. As at the moment it all just sounds fanboy-like and TWISTING things to make it sounds unrealistic. Dor exmplase "show mothing" I've clarified what they DO show. Stop twisting things, it's childish and not appropraite in any adult debate !!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by CdocZ

matra said that?! wow, not who i was expecting......

Don't panic, CdocZ.

As you'll see from the eralier response to SLicks that is NOT WHAT I SAID.

It's what he LIKES to think because he cannot comprehend that the vette and viper are NOT great handlign cars. They're great cars on American roads and tracks. They are NOT great on Euroepan roads - and in some cases are poitively DANGEROUS ! But TVRs are equally so !!!

Slicks doens't like that I cite tracka dn race experience and conversation I've had with real drivers and teams. That I was at the Euroepan launch of the Viper and spent time discussing facts. BUT he likes to think it's a ll jsut opinion because i dare to amke the statements and facts.

Prime example is the power band. He put downd the Elise as being peaky and in fact it's got a wider 'smooth' power badn by 25% than the big engines

jsut let it slip, judge me by what you read and NOT what Slicks writes about what I said - cos it gets "restated" !!!

[CdocZ]

well.......its mostly yhat your roads are narrower, that doesnt change the fact that they are good handlers, that just says they are too big for your roads

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

I'm fed up answering it Slicks and you don't accept the conditions.

On raods that suit a vette it handles well.

on roads that DONT suit vettes it doesn't.

A yump , an off-camber hairpin.
The long wheelbase measn it grounds out.
The long bonnet makes plkacing the car at the apex on tight roads difficult.
The width limits the choice a driver has to open out a corner.

The weight limits the opportunity for mid-corner correction.

it IS a criticism of the vette ( and Viper ) that they cannot handle those types of rodas well. That sdoens't detract from their handling on other roads and I've always said that.

You are blinded by fanboyism thatr I DARE to say they;re not great in all cases.

This is another fruitless point with you SLicsk. Sorry but you don't have a clue WWHAT you are talking about. You've read some mags and think you have a passing knowledge of driving a performance car and how to setup and utilise a cars capability.

So you try to dismiss all I say as if I've always said its rubbis. I've only done it comparatively and identifued the limitatiosn it has.

you jsut keep banging on about things that ONLY reflect it's positive.

When you have the maturity to judeg postive and accept negative you'll be in a better position to defend the cars. As at the moment it all just sounds fanboy-like and TWISTING things to make it sounds unrealistic. Dor exmplase "show mothing" I've clarified what they DO show. Stop twisting things, it's childish and not appropraite in any adult debate !!

The only point I will ever make in an argument between Slicks and Matra: A corvette is obviously not a good handler on tight/windy European roads compared to an Elise/Exige but for $50,000 (American dollars) it's a pretty good car for the money.

[Slicks]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

and WHICH has the wider torque band then Slicks.

So your earlier 'guess' was way off.

Thansk for getting the facts, see I already knew those. BUT you didn't. it was you that needed to read it. WHY did it take so much effort from another UCPer for you to look up the information you were wrong about ?

See if I'd just told you that you'd have gone into one of your tirades and demanded facts. Facts I already knew. I couldn't ahve told you the precise revs, but talking to guys who drive and race i know these things.

I hope these are teaching you some maturity that will help your understanding and in future you'll undertake to check things without have to be dragged screaming and kicking to the information

Figures you totally ignore the dyno sheets...
The Corvette and Viper OBVEOUSLY have a much wider band, their torque starts at idle and goes all the way to redline, with a nice, smooth curve.

Like said earily, you didnt want the RIGHT answer, your wanted YOUR answer...