F1 transmissions in Ferraris

[QBridge]

I don't much about Ferraris or F1. I used to watch Formula 1 back in Europe but when I got to America I stopped following it. A few months ago I read about F1 transmissions and I liked what I read about how it performs like a true manual but with the ease of an automatic which is something I knew. I also read that Ferrari uses the same type of transmission on a production car or some of their cars.

Which car does Ferrari use the F1 transmissions on right now that they sell? I know the Enzo does. I looked on Ebay at some Ferraris and they all seem to have the normal 6 speed manuals.
Does Ferrari have a patent on the F1 transmissions?
If they do, how much would it cost for a car manufacturer to use the transmission in their cars? For example, if Benz wanted to use the transmission how much would it cost them?

[Matra et Alpine]

THe "F1 transmission in a road car" IMHO is a Ferrari PR stunt.

LOTS of makers produce automatic boxes with varying solutions for achieving the gearchange without the need for slush boxes. Some work well adn some dont' - of course none of them cost as much as the Ferrari one ( whether that's because it IS F1 technology and expensive or whether it's good marketing to get someone to THINK they're buying real F1 technology I can't say )

BMW M-series sequential shift way back in the 90s was race bred from Getrag and was a delight to use. I had the opporuntity to hussle one round Brands at the time AND to be driven by Robb Gravett to show the "proper" way :gulp:

[johnnyperl]

as he mentioned, a true 'f1 gearbox' would be one where even without the automation it would still act sequentially (1-N-2-3-4-5-6-7). pretty much every f1 box is either a standard with acctuators or simply an automatic.

i cant say for a fact but i dont think that even the ferrari boxes are true sequentials (??)

a true sequential with acctuation could cost over $20k but can be done for less. I have heard that one of the best (regardless of the fact thats is still cheap) is the 'box found on the MR2. its a true sequential with button shifting.

[Matra et Alpine]

"sequential" isn't the special part, it's the double cultches and double engagements.

Motorbikes have run sequential gearboxes for decades
It's only a simle matter of having a channel cut in a rod to make the "seqiential" changes.

It's doing the CLUTCH that makes the difference so that you can go up and down the box quickly enough to make up for the loss of the H-shift.

If you only look at the 'box the sequential is simple. It's trying to make the fast change and the minimum loss of power. If you do a google on XeroShift you'll see a true innovation that we've already shared on UCP.

[QBridge]

Zeroshift announced they succesfully completed the first test on a Ford Mustang and they are going to release the video. It's only a 4 speed transmission though.

[johnnyperl]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

"sequential" isn't the special part, it's the double cultches and double engagements.

how so considering the use of a sequential allows you to forego the clutch on upshifts and ferrari (along with all box other than DSG) dont use double clutches? At this point the 'box and its automation are still the dominating factors. With DSG its clear that the box becomes secondary, this really is a huge step forward. Are there other forms of double clutch drivetrains available? I'm gonnna have to go test drive a Jetta GLi (no GTis yet in the US) one of these days

Originally Posted by QBridge

Zeroshift announced they succesfully completed the first test on a Ford Mustang and they are going to release the video. It's only a 4 speed transmission though.

is this the first application of xeroshift? read about it quite a while ago in racecar engineering. seems to be taking them some time...

[Cyco]

The gentleman at Zeroshift held off product release so that they could get more time testing the system in less cared for environs.

They chose to delay release rather than have the name clouded buy a rush to market.

Will be wonderful when available.

[man 430gt]

Off the top of my head, 360 F1, 360 cs, 430 (Optional) and the same with the 575 Superamerica..

[MrKipling]

Off the top of my head, they're rubbish! I've driven three different versions (360, 430 and 612) and I thought all of them were poo. Far too jerky on fast downchanges, give me heel and toe and a stick anyday. Unless it's the Proshift system in the Radical I drove - in which case gimme gimme.

To answer you question about whether or not it's true F1 tech, no it's not. F1 gearboxes are straight cut for a start, and the the change is far more controlled than in a road car. Also the forward gears in a modern F1 car are thinner than the reverse gear from ten years ago - they're designed to last one race, are treated in that fashion by the drivers and computer and are fully optimised for full bore changes.

F1A's are about as similar to an F1 box as a racing sequential dog 'box is to the synchromesh in your Metro.

[QBridge]

Zeroshift right now seems the most promising. I doubt it will be available on the average road car any time soon. Ferrari, Lambo and a few others will probably pay out the ass to get it in their cars and the cost would be to high for any other car manufacturer to afford. I don't see Benz, BMW or Audi using Zeroshift any time soon if Zeroshift is all it promises to be.
What is amazing to me is how long it took and still takes to come up with a better system. The transmissions on cars today is by far the most inefficient part of a car.

[FerrariPrinze1]

Originally Posted by man 430gt

Off the top of my head, 360 F1, 360 cs, 430 (Optional) and the same with the 575 Superamerica..

Yerr im the biggest FERRARI fan and enthusiast in the world.and i wanna know how did u get your enzo to 1000hp. did you use Turbos or keep the engine naturally aspirated?if you think about it a stock enzo Could match up with the 16.4 Veyron just imagine with an extra 340hp!I must say that could match up well with the FXX

[FerrariPrinze1]

Originally Posted by man 430gt

Off the top of my head, 360 F1, 360 cs, 430 (Optional) and the same with the 575 Superamerica..

Can u send me pics of your enzo FerrariF1@tmail.com

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by johnnyperl

how so considering the use of a sequential allows you to forego the clutch on upshifts

Clutchless changes have nothing to do with SEQUENTIAL.
Raced/rallied MANY H-boxes with clutchless changes when required - even been known to CRASH the box on downchanges when I've run out of feet ( or get caught with the foot on the wrong pedal )

and ferrari (along with all box other than DSG) dont use double clutches?

That's why the sentence included "double engagement"

At this point the 'box and its automation are still the dominating factors. With DSG its clear that the box becomes secondary, this really is a huge step forward. Are there other forms of double clutch drivetrains available?

I'm not sure what you're meaning about being "secondary".
The box, clutch(es) and selectors and gear layout all work TOGETHER in Any implementation. The "automation" is simple, it's the mechanical ability of the box to reliably change gear quickly that makes it work best.

[taz_rocks_miami]

Originally Posted by man 430gt

Off the top of my head, 360 F1, 360 cs, 430 (Optional) and the same with the 575 Superamerica..

Since they brought it to the market, 80% of all Ferraris sold have the F1 gear box.

[rev440]

Originally Posted by taz_rocks_miami

Since they brought it to the market, 80% of all Ferraris sold have the F1 gear box.

So is a 6 speed car worth more as a second hand car because theres fewer?