F1 Valve and Cam Question

[2ndclasscitizen]

I have a question about the valvetrains on F1 engines. I was watching the 5th Gear video with the F1 v Superbike v Racing Boat and they said that they have pneumatic valves as springs can't move fast enough. Now, my question is, do they still run camshafts? Or do they run a system like the Lotus is developing with no cams and the valves being actuated by a computer controlled hydraulic system? I just remember reading about Lotus' system a year or two ago and all they had was a one cylinder engine running it.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

I have a question about the valvetrains on F1 engines. I was watching the 5th Gear video with the F1 v Superbike v Racing Boat and they said that they have pneumatic valves as springs can't move fast enough. Now, my question is, do they still run camshafts? Or do they run a system like the Lotus is developing with no cams and the valves being actuated by a computer controlled hydraulic system? I just remember reading about Lotus' system a year or two ago and all they had was a one cylinder engine running it.

id assume the system is completely hydraulic, leaving the camshafts there would be a redundancy and direct actuation of the valves would lower weight and complexity

the only reason to keep the camshafts would be because of a regulation or rule somewhere which states camshafts must exist

[charged]

I thought the valves where hydraulically controlled, thats why the Willams/Cosworth has been failing so often

[lightweight]

They don't use valve springs because current metallurgic treatments can't produce items able to withstand the strains of 20,000 rpm.

Renault in the past experimented with magnetic valves. Magnets were controlling the valve movement. But the inertia forces at high RPM were so big, that the magnets had to be really big. So, that would create performance loss because of the weight and complexity of the system

[Daz27]

Can anyone conclusively say if there are camshafts in an F1 engine? I always thought there was, and that the pnuematic valve spring was a direct replacement for conventional metalic springs. Does anyone know what gas they use, is it nitrogen? or possibly Argon? I'd imagine it would have to be an inert gas. Ive heard of systems running without camshafts quite succesfully, where I read it however beats the shit out of me... just using computer controlled actuators.

[lightweight]

Eureka! There is a camshaft afterall! Check this link

http://www.pureluckdesign.com/ferrari/f1engine/

[2ndclasscitizen]

Thanks for that!

[Cyco]

Several manufactures had dropped the camshaft, but it was ruled that it had to be used when the 3.0l V10 enging regs where last majorly modified a few years ago

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by Cyco

Several manufactures had dropped the camshaft, but it was ruled that it had to be used when the 3.0l V10 enging regs where last majorly modified a few years ago

That seems strange. To me, that would've been a technology that is directly appliable to your average car. And that seems to be something that always comes up in discussions about F1, how it applies to road cars.

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by Cyco

Several manufactures had dropped the camshaft, but it was ruled that it had to be used when the 3.0l V10 enging regs where last majorly modified a few years ago

No team had ever used a cam-less engine in F1 on an actual car. Pneumatic system was introduced purely to replace the inadequete valve return spring....

[MrKipling]

Pneumatic valve engines are camless, as were the lastest spec V10s. They also had variable length intake trumpets, and a GPS mapping system for the engine that adjusted fuelling and trumpet length according to circuit position, to optimise performance.

That's all been banned for the V8 era, which is why you will have seen much more footage of 'naked' F1 cars this year - all the 'black magic' electronics are gone - and you don't get those crazy whooshing sounds coming from the intake into slow corners.

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by MrKipling

Pneumatic valve engines are camless, as were the lastest spec V10s. They also had variable length intake trumpets, and a GPS mapping system for the engine that adjusted fuelling and trumpet length according to circuit position, to optimise performance.

That's all been banned for the V8 era, which is why you will have seen much more footage of 'naked' F1 cars this year - all the 'black magic' electronics are gone - and you don't get those crazy whooshing sounds coming from the intake into slow corners.

They are not camless, the timing is still controlled by cam actuating the rocker to open the cam, the only reason they use pneumatic jet is to shoot the valve back to closed position. Variable intake runner has been gone far before the end of the V10 era(to be precise I think it was at the beginning of the V10 era).

[MrKipling]

Ok, I was pretty certain they were camless but I'll trust your judgement. As for the trumpets...

Taken from Renault F1:

In the high temperatures, the engines experience ‘acoustic offset’. This means that as the temperature rises, the revs at which the engine develops its maximum power increase – by approx. 300 rpm for every 10°C. Previously, this was compensated in part by the use of variable intake trumpets. These are no longer allowed in 2006, which means the teams must forecast more accurately the ambient temperatures in order to fit the most appropriate length of trumpets. Variable trumpets previously allowed the teams to adapt to a wider range of temperatures, but fixed trumpets must be tuned more precisely to the prevailing conditions in order to generate maximum performance.

[reg]

all comments seem to be quite old. has anyone any current info.

[reg]

I really enjoy this site.As an Australian I feel really proud to see the MOTEC unit in the new car again. Go Richard.