A work of pure genius! - Brilliant "Revetec" Engine

[stian1979]

1. How can it now have two strokes per revelution when I on the animation still can see the 3 lobed cams?

2. I heard claims from you, but I wonder how mutch fuel it use(g/kWh)

3. Why did everybody else chose to use plain bearings and not ball bearings?

5. How can fast dos the bearings on the pistons that folow the lobed cams spin at full trotle?

And for your information I don't think there is mutch refriction betwen piston and cylinder thanx to modern oils and if there was all cars would have hard crome liners by now.

And the subaru boxsers are doing fine. I was refering to your cams and not a normal boxer. For you to have the same stroke as a subaru boxer you nead a crankcase twice the size.

You moam the same shit over and over again and don't answer the actual question, just like politicians and internet scams.

Motorbike engines is full off ball bearings just like your revetec and gues what? They don't last 500 000km without a overhaul.

And it was suposed to be sooo well balanced, but now on the x4 I can see all the balance shafts sceptics predicted.

Can a moderator please change the title on this thread it's was a shithead moderator that split it and gave it this name annyway.

It should say Revetec! Brilliant or Scam.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by stian1979

1. How can it now have two strokes per revelution when I on the animation still can see the 3 lobed cams?

Do you think it might be they've not updated the animation ?

3. Why did everybody else chose to use plain bearings and not ball bearings?

Perhaps you tell why EVERYONE else uses plain ?
It's not everyone and the benefits of "plain" versus needle and ball are well understood.

And for your information I don't think there is mutch refriction betwen piston and cylinder thanx to modern oils and if there was all cars would have hard crome liners by now.

erm, "modern" engines have to have LESS oil in the ring/piston/wall interface to kleep emissions low. Cars pushing the hp/l efficiency limits DO have nikasil etc linings !!

You moam the same shit over and over again and don't answer the actual question, just like politicians and internet scams.

Yep, just liek Bush said "everyone" supported invading Iraq, you quite "everyone" using plain bearings. Pot, kettle, black <-- add verba and arrange in to a sentence

Motorbike engines is full off ball bearings just like your revetec and gues what? They don't last 500 000km without a overhaul.

500K ? Who cares !!!
The downside of increasing hp/l is that the extra stresses WILL reduce engien life. But who cares, with modern emission standards coming it will not be possible to maintain stricter emissions in older engines through wear anyway !!!

And it was suposed to be sooo well balanced, but now on the x4 I can see all the balance shafts sceptics predicted.

erm, it's a different piston confiuration so hence removing an aspect of the self-balancing.
WHat IS your engineering background ? Cos it's pretty obvious why the X4 needs balancer shafts and why for that market they moved away from the original layout for that market !

Can a moderator please change the title on this thread it's was a shithead moderator that split it and gave it this name annyway.

Attacking revetec is bad enough. Attacking a moderator in that manner is about to get you a ban.

It should say Revetec! Brilliant or Scam.

s/revetec/stian1979/

Come back with apologies and sensible questions and keep the thread on topic......

[Kariba]

If all the fire and steam in this discussion could be used to turn wheels, we would have enough energy to drive a Subaru clean across Australia.

When I saw the claim that the revtech engine weighed only 50 kg, then saw the picture of an engine the size and shape (and weight?) of a Subaru donk being lowered into a car, I sensed that truth was being badly abused.

When one of the contributors offered to sell us shares in this engineering miracle, I realised it's all about the money.

Thousands of engineers have laboured for a hundred years to improve the performance of the internal combustion engine and they have succeeded, but only in a series of little steps. Revtech may add another little step, but don't expect a giant leap.

[jediali]

Originally Posted by Kariba

If all the fire and steam in this discussion could be used to turn wheels, we would have enough energy to drive a Subaru clean across Australia.

When I saw the claim that the revtech engine weighed only 50 kg, then saw the picture of an engine the size and shape (and weight?) of a Subaru donk being lowered into a car, I sensed that truth was being badly abused.

When one of the contributors offered to sell us shares in this engineering miracle, I realised it's all about the money.

Thousands of engineers have laboured for a hundred years to improve the performance of the internal combustion engine and they have succeeded, but only in a series of little steps. Revtech may add another little step, but don't expect a giant leap.

i think you have a grasp on this topic. I have studied engines for a wee while now and have found this too be very much the case. it all boils down to gradual developments in engine breathing and operating cycles.

[santostripoli]

[i]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kariba
If all the fire and steam in this discussion could be used to turn wheels, we would have enough energy to drive a Subaru clean across Australia.

When I saw the claim that the revtech engine weighed only 50 kg, then saw the picture of an engine the size and shape (and weight?) of a Subaru donk being lowered into a car, I sensed that truth was being badly abused.

RESPONSE

Lets be fair here, at the time that was published they were in development phase (and I guess still are). They obviously new the engine would weigh less based on their CAD and understanding of the engine however Revetec cant go releasing that material for confidentiality reasons. They used an image (the Subaru donk) that all people could relate to and understand. It is basic marketing. The image was not being abused, it was assisting people's understanding of what this technology has to offer.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kariba
When one of the contributors offered to sell us shares in this engineering miracle, I realised it's all about the money.

RESPONSE

This is a little unfair, you cant control what people will say or do on this forum, there are hundreds of shareholders with this company, how can you possibly control what each of them say or do?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kariba
Thousands of engineers have laboured for a hundred years to improve the performance of the internal combustion engine and they have succeeded, but only in a series of little steps. Revtech may add another little step, but don't expect a giant leap.

RESPONSE

Define "a giant leap"?
Is hybrid (petrol/electric) technology considered a giant leap? (Hybrids are an adaption based on the ICE so it is relevant). The Hybrid Synergy Drive system as pioneered and commercialised by Toyota offers great fuel economy plus a no compromise driving experience. However, it does come at a cost. The battery pack used as part of the system is detrimental to the environment (in both its development and its disposal). Hybrid technology is currently and for the next 30-40 years commercially and logistically sound versus Hydrogen fuel cells.

Do your homework and you will find that most of the world’s car makers have been throwing casino money at hydrogen fuel cells since the mid 1980’s and so far we have seen only the BMW 7 series as a production hydro-car. The reason for this is simple; it’s a seriously expensive unit appealing only to the kinds of buyers already slapping down diners on Toyota & Honda hybrids – in small numbers. In fact BMW wont put a price tag on it, saying it will be available on a six monthly lease priced according to the buyer’s bank account.

Daimler-Benz started work on Hydro in 1971, focusing on hybrids, which stored hydrogen in an underfloor tank. Mazda would later do the same thing. Then in Berlin, Daimler Benz used liquid Hydrogen from storage tanks, only to bash its head against the problem of getting Big Oil to change service station infrastructure to pump hydro. When the Ballard fuel cell started to look promising in 1990, Mercedes-Benz took 25% of the Canadian company Ballard Power Systems, and said it would be marketing a hydrogen fuel cell A-Class by 2005. ahmmm. Not to be outdone, in 1997 Chrysler gave itself just 2 years to build a fuel cell powered car that converted petrol to hydrogen. Oh and Ford at the same time said it would have a hydrogen fuel cell prototype ready in 2000. And also remember this was the year GM said demand for its EV1 electric car, pouching 24 lead-acid batteries, was outstripping supply. It outstripped it so far the modern Edsel was flung within a year. (SOURCE: MOTOR MAGAZINE, FEBRUARY 2007).

The point is that Hydrogen Fuel cells are way off, Hybrids are here to stay.

The Revetec engine has the capability to offer the basic advantages of the petrol electric hybrids without impacting the environment as much. Furthermore, Revetec technology can potentially be integrated within an existing Hybrid platform to make it even more exciting.


If what Revetec are saying is correct, I think their innovation is truly that; an innovation. If they have developed an engine that weighs 50% less and offers the packaging effeciency that the X4 engine offers, in addition to the power to weight advantage, in addition to improved fuel economy,I find it hard for anyone to question the relative importance of this technology and the giant leap in technology it will provide.

As has been stated before, we must wait for the final test results to be presented plus news on the fiished product. Then we can all have a constructive argument.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

[pneumatic]

There is still no evidence of anything, so no point to discussing this engine at this time.

At the moment the size and weight claims have not been proven. The X4 is an aircraft engine and should be compared to radial aircraft engines. Comparing the weight and length of what is essentially a 4 cylinder radial engine to a V6 automotive engine is silly.

There is no evidence so far of the fuel economy or power advantages of this engine over a conventional engine.

It certainly is different, but at this stage no-one can say it is superior.

What is clear is that the early marketing information that was claiming 3x the torque of a conventional engine was VERY misleading and not correct. Now that they have changed the output shaft from being the tri-lobe shaft to being the balance shaft, the engine cycles per output shaft rotation are again comparable with a conventional engine.

[revetec]

Originally Posted by stian1979

1. How can it now have two strokes per revelution when I on the animation still can see the 3 lobed cams?

Look at the animation carefully. The output shaft is the shaft at the bottom that gears up the output shaft at a 3:1 ratio that provides 2 strokes per one revolution. I have posted this fact many times.

Originally Posted by stian1979

2. I heard claims from you, but I wonder how mutch fuel it use(g/kWh)

We have tested the fuel consumption with a leading engine manufacturer. Although the figures are not available for release due to conidentiality, they are still pursuing business with us. Doesn't that say it?

Originally Posted by stian1979

3. Why did everybody else chose to use plain bearings and not ball bearings?

We do not use ball roller bearings. We have trialed most types of bearings in our engines including plain bearings. Ho Hum.....

Originally Posted by stian1979

5. How can fast dos the bearings on the pistons that folow the lobed cams spin at full trotle?

Before we use any component in our engine we perform an analysis on that mechanical part. We analyse all bearings and applications and then confirm this analysis with a leading bearing manufacturer to verify. We use safety factors of 1.5 to 4.5 depending on the component application and analysis. We can simulate a bearing life over 100,000 hours to the 1/100 of an hour to failure.

Originally Posted by stian1979

And for your information I don't think there is mutch refriction betwen piston and cylinder thanx to modern oils and if there was all cars would have hard crome liners by now.

The project is about mechanical losses, not so much the fiction issue although our engine has less friction than a conventional. I suppose if you are so technical, model it yourself and perform an efficiency simulation on the assembly and you will see.

Originally Posted by stian1979

And the subaru boxsers are doing fine. I was refering to your cams and not a normal boxer. For you to have the same stroke as a subaru boxer you nead a crankcase twice the size.

Our engines are smaller in dimensions, so I don't know where you are coming from. A conventional engine has a conrod, and the piston also has to clear the counterweights at BDC. For these reasons there is no increase in crankcase size. Infact our new 2.4 litre engine block is only 160mm front to back, and 400mm round plus cylinders. How is this twice the size? We are actually 1/2 the size.

Originally Posted by stian1979

And it was suposed to be sooo well balanced, but now on the x4 I can see all the balance shafts sceptics predicted.

Our balance shafts are doing the job of a crankshaft's counterbalance. Although in our new engine, 66.6% of the reciprocating mass is counteracted by the opposing piston. So the rotational mass for counterbalancing including the drive gears and shafts is only 50% of the weight.

Maybe we should call this thread: Come and Criticize the Revetec engine without Knowing How it Works!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by revetec

Maybe we should call this thread: Come and Criticize the Revetec engine without Knowing How it Works!

Possible true, R .... but some of us are gleaning information of interest while you are responding to the "critics" ( polite name used !!!! )

[revetec]

Originally Posted by Kariba

If all the fire and steam in this discussion could be used to turn wheels, we would have enough energy to drive a Subaru clean across Australia.

When I saw the claim that the revtech engine weighed only 50 kg, then saw the picture of an engine the size and shape (and weight?) of a Subaru donk being lowered into a car, I sensed that truth was being badly abused.

When one of the contributors offered to sell us shares in this engineering miracle, I realised it's all about the money.

Thousands of engineers have laboured for a hundred years to improve the performance of the internal combustion engine and they have succeeded, but only in a series of little steps. Revtech may add another little step, but don't expect a giant leap.

What you all are quoting about are development engines designed to test internal components. Just because the case is very geometric and looks heavy it is very holow. These engines dont have to appear small and light because that is not its purpose. Please look at our new X4 pre-production engine.

Our new engine is under 1/2 the size of our target automotive market and is around 45% lighter.

We have already made big steps in efficiency during testing. Firstly our cold start fuel consumption and emissions have been reduced by over 60%. Our fuel consumption at full throttle remains almost consistant no matter what rev range we are in.

Your comments are uninformed.

[revetec]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Possible true, R .... but some of us are gleaning information of interest while you are responding to the "critics" ( polite name used !!!! )

This is true. But how about actually discussing the technology. Everyone is criticizing us without even understanding how the engine actually works. I came on this forum to answer questions from interested people. I don't really care if people exercise their right to voice their opinion. Discussion is good. I think everyone on here suffers from the Tall Poppie Syndrome. This project I'm doing is highly technical and we are exploring the maximum boundaries of the internal combustion engines. I did expect people to be more interested instead of just mouthing off but I suppose that is just human nature to do so.

[revetec]

Originally Posted by pneumatic

There is still no evidence of anything, so no point to discussing this engine at this time.

So why are you one of the biggest posters on this thread? I have discussed features and benifit prior. You have not asked for any further explanations or diagrams, rather than shooting your mouth off. If your not interested visit the "Bolts: fine thread vs coarse" topic.

Cheers
Brad

[revetec]

Originally Posted by Kariba

When one of the contributors offered to sell us shares in this engineering miracle, I realised it's all about the money.

As a company, we cannot get involved in private share sales, so it is not under our control. The person who posted the offer provides no benifit to the company.

Have I ever promoted our shares on this forum? Have I said that anyone should invest? Have I made any comment before now about shares and/or investment?

The answers are No, no, no

I have worked for the company for 10 years, half of which I did not get paid a cent for work. I work 12-16 hours a day. If it was about the money I would not be here.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by revetec

This is true. But how about actually discussing the technology. Everyone is criticizing us without even understanding how the engine actually works.

There are hundreds of folks reading the threads here, so don't worry too much about a couple of luddites

I came on this forum to answer questions from interested people.

and it's appreciated, even tho at the moment you're only answering the critics.

I think everyone on here suffers from the Tall Poppie Syndrome.

again not "everyone"
I know you won't ahve the time to read over all the nonsense that's been posted, but some of us have been trying to support innovation for a while SEe A work of pure genius! - Brilliant "Revetec" Engine

I did expect people to be more interested instead of just mouthing off but I suppose that is just human nature to do so.

There are more people interested that the nay-sayers.
I hope you won't let the loudest prevent you from providing information to the rest
BY all means don't repeat yourself. If anyone just blindly rubbishes what you're saying feel free to just add an " i've explained that already" response or better still just ignore it !!!!

[revetec]

Thank you for your comments. I was thinking that visiting this forum was a waste of time. But I will drop in from time to time to respond to questions. BTW the X4 engine will be running around mid Feb. Test results published around mid march.

Cheers

[Matra et Alpine]

Is the work on the auto version still going ahead ?
Will be mildly interested in the aero engine -- sets the "standard" for reliability