A work of pure genius! - Brilliant "Revetec" Engine

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

hly crap they need a special nerd section on this forum just for u 3 ...

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1

hly crap they need a special nerd section on this forum just for u 3 ...

Why ?

is it not better that everyoen gets the chance to learn more ?

Or are you only happy if we're talking about how much faster the car goes from STIKKAS

[hightower99]

Originally Posted by stian1979

Water injection prove to giwe lover emisions but only 5-15% will give a power increase since more than that only will cool down the gasses to mutch and you will not have a power loss instead. Heat don't make things go around? Do you know that if air dubble it's temperature it will grow to 5 times the volum? This means that preshure will increase if the air has nowhere ti exspand.

HAHAHAHAHA! the highlighted part shows that you know nothing of physics, have you ever heard of Boyle's Law? it says that if you double the temperature of a gas then the volume of that gas will double in size (It will not expand by 5!)

the power generated by the water injection (Which I believe would work better if indirectly injected) happens when you inject enough water, so that the temperature is halved when the water turns to dry steam. the volume of the air will fall by half but the water will have expanded by more than 1600 times. So if you inject 1cubic centimeter of water dispersed throughout the cylinder as a fine mist, and the cylinder has a max volume of 500ccs then the water will create over 1600ccs of steam. Now lets say that the water is turned to steam when the piston is down far enough to have 100cc in it. the steam alone would give a pressure of 16 bar but it is with all the other gasses making the increase in pressure slightly more. So in the end you are looking at around 300 extra pounds of force per square inch and on a piston with 10 square inches (a small bore motor) then you are looking at 3000lbs. of extra force! that is more than alittle bit!

Originally Posted by stian1979

Yes it can, but now it's geting more heavy again

no it doesn't my design makes it even lighter!!!

Originally Posted by stian1979

Diesel don't and this will probartly be the engine that will be more and more dominat because it don't bother that mutch about fuel qualety. You can runn it on LNG or asfalt(if you heat it up to 170C) Why do you thing big diesels at 10MW ++ has long stroke? Lots of rasons, but one of the is that it gets time to burn things that normal engines would not be able to combust.

Actually diesels will be more and more popular because the fuel is cheaper and because they get better mileage and because you can tune them easier and because they can run on biodiesel (which is easier to make than bio gas) I will bet you that no car will have a diesel that runs on asphalt (because you can make about 30L of diesel out of 1L of asphalt!) and actually diesels due burn about 80% of the fuel before 20deg ATDC!

Originally Posted by stian1979

Yeah right. I would like to see a engine provide "3" times the torque at the same fuel consumption, same outer crank diameter and same heat loss. If they say a 5% or even 20% Increase due to bether transfere of forces I could buy it, but 3 times no. Sorry hightower.Scotch Yoke kan do the same just as good.

first there is not the same outer crank diameter (it starts out more than a normal engine of the same stroke and goes down) and there is a slightly lower in cylinder heat loss (higher average pressure firing due to short stroke) even so you have no reason to doubt the claims because if you look at a crankshaft it only ever reaches 95% conversion efficiency and only for a fraction of the full power stroke (the calculated average is 30% for most square engines) the revetec is constantly at 80-90% efficiency but the average is about 90% for the whole power stroke!... 90/30=3... yeah!

oh and the scoth yoke sucks to much friction and too heavy (as opposed to what the websites want you to think!)

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by hightower99

oh and the scoth yoke sucks to much friction and too heavy (as opposed to what the websites want you to think!)

Still pretty good for the 50s tho'
With modern lighter strogner materials and better lubricants has anyone done any recent work on it.

For example for the Ford "traction drive" CVT they had mating surfaces between two rotating cones. The lubricant for IT was capable of preventing metal to metal contact at pressures up to 600,000 pounds per square inch against each other. ( Dont know how good an actual "lubricant" it was though as the purpose was to "stick" rather than "slide".

[stian1979]

Originally Posted by hightower99

HAHAHAHAHA! the highlighted part shows that you know nothing of physics, have you ever heard of Boyle's Law? it says that if you double the temperature of a gas then the volume of that gas will double in size (It will not expand by 5!)

Oppsss. you just show you know nothing at all That depends on the gas my frien and I man enough to admit I'm wrong. Oxygen has a coefficient of (thermal) expansion at 4,86, but air has only 3,67 x 10^-3 K^-1

Originally Posted by hightower99

the power generated by the water injection (Which I believe would work better if indirectly injected) happens when you inject enough water, so that the temperature is halved when the water turns to dry steam. the volume of the air will fall by half but the water will have expanded by more than 1600 times. So if you inject 1cubic centimeter of water dispersed throughout the cylinder as a fine mist, and the cylinder has a max volume of 500ccs then the water will create over 1600ccs of steam. Now lets say that the water is turned to steam when the piston is down far enough to have 100cc in it. the steam alone would give a pressure of 16 bar but it is with all the other gasses making the increase in pressure slightly more. So in the end you are looking at around 300 extra pounds of force per square inch and on a piston with 10 square inches (a small bore motor) then you are looking at 3000lbs. of extra force! that is more than alittle bit!

This is a fact with modifications. How manny times the water will exspand depends on preshure and temperature. If the preshure is 22090kPa the water would not exspand at all and if it's at 1kPa it will exspand 120000 times.

Originally Posted by hightower99

no it doesn't my design makes it even lighter!!!

I don't belive you unless it's not a revetec annymore. Please make me

Originally Posted by hightower99

Actually diesels will be more and more popular because the fuel is cheaper and because they get better mileage and because you can tune them easier and because they can run on biodiesel (which is easier to make than bio gas) I will bet you that no car will have a diesel that runs on asphalt (because you can make about 30L of diesel out of 1L of asphalt!) and actually diesels due burn about 80% of the fuel before 20deg ATDC!

I will not bet you on that, but there are diesels running on asfalt.
Large stroke ship's like you mention yourself befour.

Originally Posted by hightower99

first there is not the same outer crank diameter (it starts out more than a normal engine of the same stroke and goes down) and there is a slightly lower in cylinder heat loss (higher average pressure firing due to short stroke) even so you have no reason to doubt the claims because if you look at a crankshaft it only ever reaches 95% conversion efficiency and only for a fraction of the full power stroke (the calculated average is 30% for most square engines) the revetec is constantly at 80-90% efficiency but the average is about 90% for the whole power stroke!... 90/30=3... yeah!

OK! What ever make you happy, but I would not have a revetec even if you dip it in honey and roll it in marzipan.

Originally Posted by hightower99

oh and the scoth yoke sucks to much friction and too heavy (as opposed to what the websites want you to think!)

and the revetec don't?

Giwe me your e-mail so I can write you a long lether for apology the day I buy my first revetec powered car.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Still pretty good for the 50s tho'
With modern lighter strogner materials and better lubricants has anyone done any recent work on it.

Actualy I think it more from the the 1890-1910 area.

[hightower99]

Originally Posted by stian1979

That depends on the gas my frien and I man enough to admit I'm wrong. Oxygen has a coefficient of (thermal) expansion at 4,86, but air has only 3,67 x 10^-3 K^-1

Wow you are a very confused person if I have 1 cubic centimeter of any gas and double the temperature then the gas will now fill 2 cubic centimeters! (think about it!) ((note that it is only a doubling of the absolute temperature that this happens))

Originally Posted by stian1979

This is a fact with modifications. How manny times the water will exspand depends on preshure and temperature. If the preshure is 22090kPa the water would not exspand at all and if it's at 1kPa it will exspand 120000 times.

umm you do realise that I am talking about when water (a liquid) turns into dry steam (a gas) I assure you that water does turn to steam when injected into an engine and that the calculated value of expansion between water at it's densist (4deg C) and totally dry steam (100deg C) is over 1600 times. If you increase the temperature of the gas even more than it expands accordingly! ((in a confined container pressure goes up))

Originally Posted by stian1979

I don't belive you unless it's not a revetec annymore. Please make me

My design is based on revetec insomuch as it still uses a counter-rotating cam system to convert linier motion into rotary motion. And I would rather you didn't believe in my design as that intolls faith and I have no need of faith!

Originally Posted by stian1979

I will not bet you on that, but there are diesels running on asfalt.
Large stroke ship's like you mention yourself befour.

Do you read my posts or what?!? I know that large ships run on warmed asphalt and other heavy oils they do so because it is super cheap! You will never have a car that runs on asphalt and therefore you previous statement is irrelevant!

Originally Posted by stian1979

and the revetec don't?

Giwe me your e-mail so I can write you a long lether for apology the day I buy my first revetec powered car.

the revetec system is relatively light weight and is much lower friction than a conventional crank design and the convensional crank design is much better than the yoke so...!

and I am not about to hand out my email to some yaahoo on a net forum cause all that will get me is a pathetic attemp to spam me!

Originally Posted by stian1979

Actualy I think it more from the the 1890-1910 area.

EXACTLY do you realise that the normal crankshaft design that is in most ICEs right now was invented to replace the Yoke! the scotch yoke was dated back in 1910!

[stian1979]

Originally Posted by hightower99

Wow you are a very confused person if I have 1 cubic centimeter of any gas and double the temperature then the gas will now fill 2 cubic centimeters! (think about it!) ((note that it is only a doubling of the absolute temperature that this happens))

OK! so you don't belive in coefficient of (thermal) expansion? so nice, in your world a steel pipe wont grow longer if heated.

Originally Posted by hightower99

umm you do realise that I am talking about when water (a liquid) turns into dry steam (a gas) I assure you that water does turn to steam when injected into an engine and that the calculated value of expansion between water at it's densist (4deg C) and totally dry steam (100deg C) is over 1600 times. If you increase the temperature of the gas even more than it expands accordingly! ((in a confined container pressure goes up))

Now your talking about a preshure betwen 100-110kPa. My cylinder preshure is way higher than that. 100kPa is normal atmospheric pressure. This means that at a preshure of 18bara you will only get 92 times ekspension and this is only a compresion preshure. How high will it go durning combustuon? The ekspansion you are talking about will only hapend when the exhaust valve open.

Originally Posted by hightower99

My design is based on revetec insomuch as it still uses a counter-rotating cam system to convert linier motion into rotary motion. And I would rather you didn't believe in my design as that intolls faith and I have no need of faith!

I recond this means no profe.

Originally Posted by hightower99

Do you read my posts or what?!? I know that large ships run on warmed asphalt and other heavy oils they do so because it is super cheap! You will never have a car that runs on asphalt and therefore you previous statement is irrelevant!

I read your post twice as good as you read mine. I staded that diesels are the future because it can burn annything as long as it is a liquid and has calorific value.

Originally Posted by hightower99

the revetec system is relatively light weight and is much lower friction than a conventional crank design and the convensional crank design is much better than the yoke so...!

I simply don't belive it has lover friction because off it's contrarotating mecanism. The ball bearing's is something that will nead replacement often and plain bearings can't be adopted.

Originally Posted by hightower99

and I am not about to hand out my email to some yaahoo on a net forum cause all that will get me is a pathetic attemp to spam me!

On yourown actions you know others. Now I know what you would do.

Originally Posted by hightower99

EXACTLY do you realise that the normal crankshaft design that is in most ICEs right now was invented to replace the Yoke! the scotch yoke was dated back in 1910!

So the normal crankshaft was invented after the Yoke? at 1910?
WOW. I have seen normal crankshaft engines fom 1906 in the Wickmann museum. Well at least you make me laugh.

The advantages compared to a standard crankshaft and connecting rod setup are:
High torque output with a small cylinder size.
Fewer moving parts.
Smoother operation.
Higher percentage of the time spent at top-dead-center and bottom-dead-center (dwell) improving engine efficiency.

The disadvantages are:
Rapid wear of the slot in the yoke.

This setup is most commonly used in control valve actuators in high pressure oil and gas pipelines.

See the Yoke is in sucsesful use http://www.scana.no/no/ssr/news-and-media/nedlasting

Don't you even find it alarming that revetec hide so mutch information on there web page? If they have the patents nobody can steal it from them annyway.

I got a nice bock for you ISBN-82-00-42450-2 maybe they have it in English to.

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by stain1979

Don't you even find it alarming that revetec hide so mutch information on there web page? If they have the patents nobody can steal it from them annyway.

Just because you have a patent to protect your idea doesnt't mean you have any protection if you don't have the money to fight it in court.

[hightower99]

OK! so you don't belive in coefficient of (thermal) expansion? so nice, in your world a steel pipe wont grow longer if heated.

Yes I do believe in coefficient of expansion (READ the post don't skim it!). Metals do expand when there temperature is raised but they do not follow the same rules as gasses (as in a rod of steel doesn't double it's volume if I double the absolute temperature) so gasses change there size, liquids change there size, and even solids change there size!

Now your talking about a preshure betwen 100-110kPa. My cylinder preshure is way higher than that. 100kPa is normal atmospheric pressure. This means that at a preshure of 18bara you will only get 92 times ekspension and this is only a compresion preshure. How high will it go durning combustuon? The ekspansion you are talking about will only hapend when the exhaust valve open.

sorry my last post (the part you quoted) has all the info there.

I recond this means no profe.

No it means I don't need your faith! and what do you mean no proof I have only drawn some drawings and done some very like math. I have not got my hands on a revetec engine yet so I couldn't give you a direct proof but I could give you some pictures... and let you make your own conclusions.

I read your post twice as good as you read mine. I staded that diesels are the future because it can burn annything as long as it is a liquid and has calorific value.

Well just if it was alittle to unclear for you DEISELS ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BECOME SUPER POPULAR DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY CAN BURN ALMOST ANYTHING THAT CAN BE ATOMISED AND HAS A CALORIC VALUE!!!!! the reasons for there increasing popularity has nothing to do with that it has to do with the things I stated. So next time READ my posts!

I simply don't belive it has lover friction because off it's contrarotating mecanism. The ball bearing's is something that will nead replacement often and plain bearings can't be adopted.

Counter rotating= less vibration= less loss due to frictions and stresses! and ball bearings can last along time if they are correctly matched to the job (Like in the ball bearing turbos I see which have been used hard for 120000km!!!)

So the normal crankshaft was invented after the Yoke? at 1910?
WOW. I have seen normal crankshaft engines fom 1906 in the Wickmann museum. Well at least you make me laugh.

The advantages compared to a standard crankshaft and connecting rod setup are:
High torque output with a small cylinder size.
Fewer moving parts.
Smoother operation.
Higher percentage of the time spent at top-dead-center and bottom-dead-center (dwell) improving engine efficiency.

The disadvantages are:
Rapid wear of the slot in the yoke.

Yes the scotch yoke came first or very very close to the crankshaft. The normal crankshaft wasn't invented in 1910 and I never said it was! I said that the scotch yoke was old tech by 1910!

the advantages you list are rediculess and they are not true
The crankshaft/connecting rod design gets better torque per smaller cylinder size (What ever that means?)
A scoth yoke needs 4 parts for a single piston while a normal setup needs only 3. So a normal setup has fewer parts.
smoother operation might be true due to less side loading.
And the last bit about more time at TDC and BDC is really funny cause that will not help an engine much especially in the future when they need to run on detonation mode! (You do know that a piston does no work at TDC and BDC so why should it be there for a longer amount of time?) Your listed disadvantage is only the most obvious one which is caused by a large amount of friction! it is most definately true!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by stian1979

Don't you even find it alarming that revetec hide so mutch information on there web page? If they have the patents nobody can steal it from them annyway.

If you ever manage to invent then do NOT make that mistake.

Every patent application is kep as secret as possible until it is made public.
This can be up to two years and in some cases is deliberately made longer by the patentee by adding additional claims.

BECAUSE ....... as soon as your patent goes public there are companies who will take that patent and work to identify uses not considered AND possible developmetn needs in teh future. These companies then VERY QUICKLY apply for patents for those features. Suddenly a patent holder fo the KEY design finds out that he can't actually develop the product because of these other patents and has to engage in trying to purchase those rights.

Patents which were intially set up to ensure sharing of techincal advances has now become a business in it's own right.

[stian1979]

Originally Posted by hightower99

Yes I do believe in coefficient of expansion (READ the post don't skim it!). Metals do expand when there temperature is raised but they do not follow the same rules as gasses (as in a rod of steel doesn't double it's volume if I double the absolute temperature) so gasses change there size, liquids change there size, and even solids change there size!

So you realised that now?
Iron 11,7 x 10^-6 K^-1 (coefficient of expansion in lenght)
water 0,21 x 10^-3 K^-1 (coefficient of expansion in volum)
Air 3,67 x 10^-3 K^-1 (coefficient of expansion in volum)

Originally Posted by hightower99

Well just if it was alittle to unclear for you DEISELS ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BECOME SUPER POPULAR DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY CAN BURN ALMOST ANYTHING THAT CAN BE ATOMISED AND HAS A CALORIC VALUE!!!!! the reasons for there increasing popularity has nothing to do with that it has to do with the things I stated. So next time READ my posts!

Read my post.
They are coming more populat for that reason. I did not say today smartass.
Once we will maybe not be able to alow our self runn on high grade fuel. Did you think about that? Gasoline is depended on octan and diesels are not.

Originally Posted by hightower99

Counter rotating= less vibration= less loss due to frictions and stresses! and ball bearings can last along time if they are correctly matched to the job (Like in the ball bearing turbos I see which have been used hard for 120000km!!!)

I think you are out of your leaf here. Torbo bearings are moustly plain bearing's. When they are fitted with ball bearings is moustly for high performance aplications. Torbos don't have huge loads on the bearings and the diameter is smal so the peripheral speed will not be high. Smal bearing=high speed.

Originally Posted by hightower99

Yes the scotch yoke came first or very very close to the crankshaft. The normal crankshaft wasn't invented in 1910 and I never said it was! I said that the scotch yoke was old tech by 1910!

pneuamtic scotch yoke actuators is produced in 100's all ower the world. All this manufacturers don't understand what you do?

Originally Posted by hightower99

the advantages you list are rediculess and they are not true
The crankshaft/connecting rod design gets better torque per smaller cylinder size (What ever that means?)
A scoth yoke needs 4 parts for a single piston while a normal setup needs only 3. So a normal setup has fewer parts.

And how manny parts dos the fantastic Revetec nead?

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

If you ever manage to invent then do NOT make that mistake.

Every patent application is kep as secret as possible until it is made public.
This can be up to two years and in some cases is deliberately made longer by the patentee by adding additional claims.

This Prototype named 96-5.3-01 (year-version-number) was first started up on the Queens Birthday 1996. WOW. the years in australia is long.

Patents on what by the way? Cams are invented, gear for contrarotating is invented and the pistion concept is invented. Used by Yoke befour.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

BECAUSE ....... as soon as your patent goes public there are companies who will take that patent and work to identify uses not considered AND possible developmetn needs in teh future. These companies then VERY QUICKLY apply for patents for those features. Suddenly a patent holder fo the KEY design finds out that he can't actually develop the product because of these other patents and has to engage in trying to purchase those rights.

Patents which were intially set up to ensure sharing of techincal advances has now become a business in it's own right.

So it's not to late to late to apply the patent for usage off the weel yet?
WOW
I can get ritch.

If a engine produce 400Nm at 3000RPM and is converted to a revetec design and then produce 3 times the torque.

Now that means the revetec design should produce 3 times the power too.
Nm x RPM is kw.
kW=Nm/s or kJ/s.

Revetec say they produce 3 times the torque, but the same power?
I find that sounding like a back yard mecanic from Texas.

Sorry guys
I don't buy it.

The two of you can discus advantages about the revetec because I don't care to point out the montain off lies and disadvantages to the two of you.
Good luck.

[teatako]

i want one of these for my smart roadster

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by stian1979

This Prototype named 96-5.3-01 (year-version-number) was first started up on the Queens Birthday 1996. WOW. the years in australia is long.

Please go back and read wher I pointed out that a clever patentee will add additional claims on an on-going basis forcing the patent BACK into application state and not requiring publishing !!
MANY years. One of mine was filed in 2001, the compamy keeps adding a few things and it MAY get published next year ( we're running out of new ideas around the basic concept )

Patents on what by the way? Cams are invented, gear for contrarotating is invented and the pistion concept is invented. Used by Yoke befour.

HOW you use something is patentable even if the thing was patented before.
How you use a feature to deliver some NEW capability - additional power or efficiency is also patentable. So I can apply for a patent to use a micro revetec engine (say) to power a next generation laptop The engine existed, the laptop existed, my patenn would be for the application !! Anyone writing a patent themself tries to cover ALL those eventualities before it is published. Again, if you go back to what I said earlier post abotu patents then you will understand better.

So it's not to late to late to apply the patent for usage off the weel yet?
WOW

THAT is a correct statement IF you ahve some new applicaiton of the wheel. If you can find a way to use a wheel to cure cancer then you can patent it. You can't manage to patent it to move a vehicle ( Interestingly in nano technology there are patent filings abotu nano-hweels, motors etc )

I can get ritch.

only if you are smart enough to INVENT, smart enough to write a cast iron patent for a valuable application AND smart enough to spell

If a engine produce 400Nm at 3000RPM and is converted to a revetec design and then produce 3 times the torque..........................Revetec say they produce 3 times the torque, but the same power?
I find that sounding like a back yard mecanic from Texas.

You sir don't understand engines
On YOUR assumption then a long stroke engine with higher torque output should ALSO produce higher power than the same engine with shorter stroke/larger bore .... PS: They dont

Sorry guys
I don't buy it.

That's OK, we're not asking you to.
Pearls before swine

[PBB]

Originally Posted by hightower99

the power generated by the water injection (Which I believe would work better if indirectly injected) happens when you inject enough water, so that the temperature is halved when the water turns to dry steam. the volume of the air will fall by half but the water will have expanded by more than 1600 times. So if you inject 1cubic centimeter of water dispersed throughout the cylinder as a fine mist, and the cylinder has a max volume of 500ccs then the water will create over 1600ccs of steam. Now lets say that the water is turned to steam when the piston is down far enough to have 100cc in it. the steam alone would give a pressure of 16 bar but it is with all the other gasses making the increase in pressure slightly more. So in the end you are looking at around 300 extra pounds of force per square inch and on a piston with 10 square inches (a small bore motor) then you are looking at 3000lbs. of extra force! that is more than alittle bit!

Hightower, you're always good for a chuckle.
Water injection does not create power by vaporizing into steam.

Water injection indirectly creates power by removing heat from the combustion chamber via steam vaporization. This lowering of the cylinder temperature raises the detonation threshold which allows the engine tuner to make more power by 1) leaning out the air/fuel mixture 2) advancing the timing 3) raising the boost 4) use lower octane fuel to make the same power as an engine on high-octane fuel without water injection. Raising the boost yields, by far, the biggest power gains which is why water injection is used primarily on forced induction engines.

While your grasp of physics and their theoretical application is exemplary for a 17 year old, you still fail hardcore at many practical apects of engine design and tuning.

[hightower99]

Originally Posted by PBB

Hightower, you're always good for a chuckle.
Water injection does not create power by vaporizing into steam.

Water injection indirectly creates power by removing heat from the combustion chamber via steam vaporization. This lowering of the cylinder temperature raises the detonation threshold which allows the engine tuner to make more power by 1) leaning out the air/fuel mixture 2) advancing the timing 3) raising the boost 4) use lower octane fuel to make the same power as an engine on high-octane fuel without water injection. Raising the boost yields, by far, the biggest power gains which is why water injection is used primarily on forced induction engines.

While your grasp of physics and their theoretical application is exemplary for a 17 year old, you still fail hardcore at many practical apects of engine design and tuning.

Well You quote what water injection does now. Water injection is only a indirect power adder as of now but if you used it as a cooling system and got rid of the radiator like I said. You could take advantage of all the things you mention as well as increased pressure from the added mass! also a decrease in weight due to no radiators.