Drive-by-wire steering: Is it bullshit?

[MadMax13]

And i dont really like it, however it does have rack and pinion and no ABS...

[hightower99]

Well I want my new cars to be as efficient and safe as possible as well as have a good deal of sportiness. I have nothing against new electronic control/assist. Being able to drive a large car in parking towers and around in Copenhagen requires power steering, computer controlled AC systems make setting a comfortable temperature quick and easy. The ECU makes sure that my engine is running as efficiently as possible, and ABS and traction control is great.

Having said that I don't think that there is any need to change to steer-by-wire as the current system is more than up to the task. You don't really need steer-by-wire unless the basic design is changed.

On the other hand I love driving my stripped 325i (no computer control except for EFI and no power assist except on the brakes).

[drakkie]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Depends
Type of circuit components. Free air circulation, Forced air circulation. Access to cold air.
But generally manufacturers try to keep electronics as far away from engine as possible. So ECUs aren't besides engines.

Interesting WOuld wonder about that though as the water is running at 100- degrees !
Never heard of it.
And it's over-engineering, pipe work to cold air and fan woudl be much more effective ... or do what everyone does and mount the electronics AWAY from the engine heat

Bigger concern with electrics is the eletrical noise and protecting it from line carried spikes and ether transmissions !!!

True. It is way easier to put it under the dash or something, but for some reason they don't. After close inspection of the presentations on my laptop there is no mentioning of it there. Must be in one of my notes. Will ask the teacher (Daf's former head of the engine department) about it anyway. Will get back to you

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by drakkie

True. It is way easier to put it under the dash or something, but for some reason they don't. After close inspection of the presentations on my laptop there is no mentioning of it there. Must be in one of my notes. Will ask the teacher (Daf's former head of the engine department) about it anyway. Will get back to you

Corsa has at the base of the A-pillar.
A610 has it at the front -- yep mad coz the engines at the back. French
The closest I've ever seen it to an engine was on the front bulkhead, still plenty far away fro engine heat not to be a major impact.

[ruim20]

Originally Posted by MidNiteRide89

ROTF! Quote of the month right there!

Hmmm.... they use fly-by-wire in military aircraft, so I would say that the technology is solid, but I have to agree that the driving aspect would become horribly artificial.

Give me unassisted rack & pinion and a proper clutch thanks! You may go faster, but I'll be having more fun...

Aircraft use it, but they have more than one computer, 3/4 or more, ence when one fails the others make the decisions. I just can't see car makers doing more than one system for the same thing in a car

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by ruim20

Aircraft use it, but they have more than one computer, 3/4 or more, ence when one fails the others make the decisions. I just can't see car makers doing more than one system for the same thing in a car

They did it for brakes "Dual circuit".
It will come to cars as prices drop and benefits rise.
CAN is more and more prevalanet.

[SlickHolden]

Is drive by wire perfect? And can it be perfect for steering?.

I am not 100% sold on this drive by wire throttle control, But it is good it's still not perfect, And in my eyes if it's not perfect i wont drive a car that steers this way i feel you will loose all feel in driving soon.

[MadMax13]

I can tell you that i have driven a drive-by-wire car, not to mention dozens of other modern cars, and there is a TOTAL disconnect from ACTUALLY driving...

[Matra et Alpine]

For it to be a NO feeling then it's not an optimal design taking in to account the target market.
Where "drive-by-wire" has been used it's been to date in the non-critical area of throttle.
Which vehjicle has dbw steering ?
Electric power assistance is different than dbw

A decent system for steering dbw would include sensors and generate force feedback at the wheel. In reality it would be possible to exactly match the feedback of a non-pas if desired ! BUT, most drivers don't care for "feedback" and are more than happy with the lack of road feel. So for the mass market it woulnd't be a biggy However, it WOULd be superb to have switchable steering as we now have suspension and gearchange !! You coudl switch to "rally mode" on rough twisty roads with 2 1/2 turns lock-to-lock and then go to "race mode" with 1 turn lock-to-lock. Switch feedback to low for gravel/offroad and to high for smooth tarmac/track

[SlickHolden]

I have herd someone tell me that the rav4 was some type of drive by wire steering? Is this true?.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I have herd someone tell me that the rav4 was some type of drive by wire steering? Is this true?.

RAV4 = "electric power steering" in the UK.
This is power assisted steering which uses similar feedback control loop as hydraulic but with elecctronic sensors and electric motors to provide the assistance. Fail-safe mode same as "normal" pas.

Very common in Europe and now being retro-fitted into older rally cars and kit cars
eg from an MGF, fitteed to a QUantum by one of the guys in our club. Took away the Ford steering column, left the rack in place. Bolted this in with a few fabricated brackets and bingo power steering

You can see the electric motor that provides the power assistance at the left

Am looking to use the COrsa version ( cheaper, more available, more reliable ) for daughters Quantums.

Irish company already makes an adjustable control for the power steering for use in competition

[henk4]

all done before. We used to make soapboxes and used a wire to steer the wheels...

[drakkie]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

They did it for brakes "Dual circuit".
It will come to cars as prices drop and benefits rise.
CAN is more and more prevalanet.

But CAN-BUS's are not a double circuit, I think (?).

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by drakkie

But CAN-BUS's are not a double circuit, I think (?).

Only cost would limit the application of multiple busses.
However, the bus devices are all fail-safe ... ie they fail with no impact on the bus itself, so the bus can continue.
Then there are no reasons that a manufacturer has ( 'cept price as always ) to have multiple UCEs, distributed ECUs, hot-standby modes, cold standby modes. All the tricks used in aviation.

[drakkie]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Only cost would limit the application of multiple busses.
However, the bus devices are all fail-safe ... ie they fail with no impact on the bus itself, so the bus can continue.

That is because of the signals passing through, right, each coded differenty and only translatable by the receiving device. I read multiple articles in my favourite magazine about this technology (no classes yet on it), so i don't know every detail.

Then there are no reasons that a manufacturer has ( 'cept price as always ) to have multiple UCEs, distributed ECUs, hot-standby modes, cold standby modes. All the tricks used in aviation.

UCE's ? Is that a typo or am I missing something ?