Diesel - LPG in combo "a win/win story"

[nota]

AutoSpeed article (hope the link works ok)

We’ve never seen anything like it. A 25 per cent increase in power across the whole rev range, reduced fuel costs, better exhaust gas emissions – and [for Australian buyers] the government will pay half the cost of the work! Read that again – the Australian government will pay half the cost of the performance modification!

So what the hell are we talking about?

Adding LPG fuelling to a diesel, that’s what. And any type of diesel!

It’s one of the most amazing modifications we’ve covered in nearly a decade of AutoSpeed.

We reckon that this system has immense potential for sporting diesel cars. Put ancillary LPG on any modern turbo common rail diesel (the power gains are said to be the same irrespective of the diesel injection system) and you’re starting to talk outstanding performance.

Add to that the dollar savings in replacing with LPG a proportion of the consumed diesel, the lower emissions, and the well-proven gas technology - and it looks a killer application.

Diesel never looked better!

DIESEL GAS AUSTRALIA (tech page of manufacturer's site)

[henk4]

I have the creepy feeling that April 1st may play a role in this publication. On the other hand I hope I am wrong

[pimento]

Originally Posted by henk4

I have the creepy feeling that April 1st may play a role in this publication. On the other hand I hope I am wrong

I'd agree, except that I heard about this over a year ago. Apparently there've been truckies that just had a normal gas bottle in the cab with a hose leading into the air intake and still getting an appreciable difference. I'm not want to try that though.. couldn't be good in the event of an accident.

[charged]

Originally Posted by henk4

I have the creepy feeling that April 1st may play a role in this publication. On the other hand I hope I am wrong

No its all true henk, I go past the place every day to work and its always got vehichles being converted. If I buy a diesel again I will fit it, nephew works on some interstate trucks that run the system and they are getting better torque and fuel economy.

The beauty of it too is the Government gives a $2000 dollar rebate for it

I thought you Europeans knew it all when it comes to diesels , seems you dont: J/K

[henk4]

Originally Posted by charged

The beauty of it too is the Government gives a $2000 dollar rebate for it

I thought you Europeans knew it all when it comes to diesels diesels, seems you dont: J/K

we are lacking generous governments....

[henk4]

Originally Posted by charged

No its all true henk, I go past the place every day to work and its always got vehichles being converted. If I buy a diesel again I will fit it, nephew works on some interstate trucks that run the system and they are getting better torque and fuel economy.

The beauty of it too is the Government gives a $2000 dollar rebate for it

I thought you Europeans knew it all when it comes to diesels , seems you dont: J/K

I actually read through the article and technically the system seems to work. However, some questions, if the LPG is under normal pressure, what size of storage tank would be required, because you want at least a supply that would last one fill-up of a diesel tank. How will this device be installed in the car. How would it have to be refilled? Would the car technically fall under LPG-cars, which as you may know have some accessibility problems in Europe regarding parking facilities and for instance the Channel Tunnel.

[culver]

I've seen lots of LPG city busses. They are the ones with enormous LP tanks on the top of the vehicle. The problem with LPG is energy density. It's just not as compact as liquid fuel thus you need a lot of space to store the tanks. That's the tank that must resist explosive decompression in the even of a wreck...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by culver

I've seen lots of LPG city busses. They are the ones with enormous LP tanks on the top of the vehicle. The problem with LPG is energy density. It's just not as compact as liquid fuel thus you need a lot of space to store the tanks. That's the tank that must resist explosive decompression in the even of a wreck...

LPG is relatively popular in Holland, but there are restrictions, like admission to parking garages, refueling stations outside residential areas etc.

[coolieman1220]

i've heard about LPG on diesel trucks here in the states. thought of it as kinda like NOS use it when you need to

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by henk4

I actually read through the article and technically the system seems to work. However, some questions, if the LPG is under normal pressure, what size of storage tank would be required, because you want at least a supply that would last one fill-up of a diesel tank. How will this device be installed in the car. How would it have to be refilled? Would the car technically fall under LPG-cars, which as you may know have some accessibility problems in Europe regarding parking facilities and for instance the Channel Tunnel.

Originally Posted by henk4

LPG is relatively popular in Holland, but there are restrictions, like admission to parking garages, refueling stations outside residential areas etc.

Taxis in Hong Kong use LPG. They are Toyota Crowns and they have a huge back seat.

They're allowed in tunnels, and afaik, they're allowed in parking garages as well.

How come they're restricted in Europe? Explosion/fire hazard?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

How come they're restricted in Europe? Explosion/fire hazard?

basically yes...

[nota]

Originally Posted by henk4

I actually read through the article and technically the system seems to work. However, some questions, if the LPG is under normal pressure, what size of storage tank would be required, because you want at least a supply that would last one fill-up of a diesel tank. How will this device be installed in the car.

Did you investigate the manufacturer's site, including their 'installation' page?

DIESEL GAS AUSTRALIA

How would it have to be refilled?

Just like any other LPG vehicle, including duel-fuel. The fill-point is usually sited inside the fuel flap adjacent to the petrol-filler

Would the car technically fall under LPG-cars, which as you may know have some accessibility problems in Europe regarding parking facilities and for instance the Channel Tunnel.

Dunno about euro regs but no oppressive restrictions here and even the cops consider it sufficiently safe to use LPG in their patrol cars

Originally Posted by culver

I've seen lots of LPG city busses. They are the ones with enormous LP tanks on the top of the vehicle.

LPG-powered trucks like concrete mixers and fast 'interstaters' used for newspaper deliveries were once quite common in Oz, but large petrol-powered commercial vehicles have long since gone the way of the Dodo here and it's all diesel-based. But some buses (and a few cars) have been converted to run on natural gas which is an abundant and apparently excellent fuel, at least environmentally and in price, for heavy vehicles. It's strange to think of LPG tanks being draped atop vehicles - in our buses these gas tanks are all situated underfloor, bringing cleaner styling + lower centre of gravity + Lotus-like handling

The problem with LPG is energy density. It's just not as compact as liquid fuel thus you need a lot of space to store the tanks. That's the tank that must resist explosive decompression in the even of a wreck...

Among other manufacturers Ford eg offer nine 'E-Gas' Falcon models (in sedan, wagon & ute) that are mono-LPG powered and their tanks are all located underfloor, or under-chassis in the latter.

Tanks are available in lots of various shapes and capacities, including compact 'torriodal' tanks which are donut shaped to fit within the spare-wheel void. I've also heard of the space-saving 'conformable' tank from New Zealand which is of oval cross-section, and at one stage was proposed to be made out of plastic!

Not sure I'd want a plastic LPG tank in my car but steel tanks seem relatively invulnerable in the field and I've seen demonstrations where high-powered bullets are fired into them for no dramatic effect. I feel sufficiently comfortable about Mrs nota's Falcon which was factory-fitted to dual-fuel (petrol & LPG) back in '93. Although an old-style installation it still doesn't take up too much space in relative terms, and by itself this modest-sized tank delivers a 450 km range (not including the original petrol tank)

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by nota

Not sure I'd want a plastic LPG tank in my car but steel tanks seem relatively invulnerable in the field and I've seen demonstrations where high-powered bullets are fired into them for no dramatic effect.

dramatic rather than useful is right very different impact and not really useful unless you get shot at daily

[nota]

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

dramatic rather than useful is right very different impact and not really useful unless you get shot at daily

lol and I guess that's only something for the cops to worry about (thank goodness) but those steel tanks are pretty strong units and an impact sufficient to tear or crush one would by most opinion inevitably be fatal anyway

[Kozy]

Originally Posted by nota

in our buses these gas tanks are all situated underfloor... Lotus-like handling

Not exactly how I would describe the handling of a bus...