Biogasoline/petrol?

[MRR]

Ive heard a lot about biodiesel but now we may be able to produce a bio fuel that is essentially regular gasoline with biomass and waste. Algae oil could also produce the same thing but I suspect the key to continuing supplying transportation fuels as oil supplies dwindle will be to derive the fuels from a variety of sources.

Diversified Energy®

Sapphire Energy also has plans to produce 5000 bpd equivalent of algae (bio) crude that is a 1 for 1 replacement for crude oil and thus can be refined into the same transportation fuels.

Sapphire Energy

Thoughts? Anyone actually have any experience or education in biology, biomedical engineering, etc?

[NSXType-R]

I've heard it being mentioned. But I haven't heard any steps toward it.

Besides, corn oil has been the main source, like it or not, in America, at least. Stupid lobbyists.

[MRR]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

I've heard it being mentioned. But I haven't heard any steps toward it.

Besides, corn oil has been the main source, like it or not, in America, at least. Stupid lobbyists.

Corn oil would require half of US farmland to replace our transportation fuel and would drive the price of food to unaffordable levels for billions. Algae or bacteria designer fuels produce actual gasoline and algae would require only 15,000 square miles (or 0.1% of US land) to produce (1/7th of the area for corn). It doesn't need arable land (desert works fine because of intense sunlight) so even the tiny area of land it might use doesn't compete with food.

[ruim20]

Originally Posted by MRR

Corn oil would require half of US farmland to replace our transportation fuel and would drive the price of food to unaffordable levels for billions. Algae or bacteria designer fuels produce actual gasoline and algae would require only 15,000 square miles (or 0.1% of US land) to produce (1/7th of the area for corn). It doesn't need arable land (desert works fine because of intense sunlight) so even the tiny area of land it might use doesn't compete with food.

Ofcourse that would be all nice and dandy if it wasn't money involved, and lot's of it, let the starvation begin!

[MRR]

Originally Posted by ruim20

Ofcourse that would be all nice and dandy if it wasn't money involved, and lot's of it, let the starvation begin!

Yes but as daily oil production peaks and inevitably declines (it will probably happen in the next 1-2 decades) we will quickly find that corn ethanol can't even begin to cover the difference in a decline in oil production. Better to start preparing now with something that has the potential to replace oil for transportation fuels.

Unfortunately for the time being subsidies to US farmers for ethanol are preventing any meaningful steps forward to a better biofuel industry that is not based on crops.

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by MRR

Corn oil would require half of US farmland to replace our transportation fuel and would drive the price of food to unaffordable levels for billions. Algae or bacteria designer fuels produce actual gasoline and algae would require only 15,000 square miles (or 0.1% of US land) to produce (1/7th of the area for corn). It doesn't need arable land (desert works fine because of intense sunlight) so even the tiny area of land it might use doesn't compete with food.

That's what I meant. Lobbyists have made corn oil super reasonable in the eyes of our government. Which means any other form of alternative fuel is probably dead in the water.

[MRR]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

That's what I meant. Lobbyists have made corn oil super reasonable in the eyes of our government. Which means any other form of alternative fuel is probably dead in the water.

Yup heard Obama has ties to corn ethanol and McCain is the oil industry's *****. Whoever wins we were still screwed.

[ruim20]

There are so many interests around this, i don't think we should really be worring about it, unfortunatly we don't have the political or economical power to do anything about it...

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by MRR

Yup heard Obama has ties to corn ethanol and McCain is the oil industry's *****. Whoever wins we were still screwed.

Yeah, the thing is, corn oil is a decent stopgap- a go between between oil and a future alternative fuel. But it's not a permanent save, like the majority of people in the US think it is. And GM's Flex Fuel advertisements is not helping. Besides, switchgrass and cane sugar is a better alternative anyway.

[Jax]

Look, if we go to alternative fuels, we need engines that can run multifuels! Current piston engines can't. We need to start designing variable compression motors that can alternate fuel.

[roosterjuicer]

say what you wish about corn ethanol but im loving it out here in nebraska. our 89 or 90 (depending on gas station) gas is cheaper than our 87 octane gas and its a hell of a lot cheaper than any state that doesn't use corn...btw we still have plenty of food.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Basically, IMHO, Biofuels are a crock of crap.

Crops should be used to feed the population. the amount of corn & other materials needed to create Biofuel crops takes away valuble growing land from other crops. This fuel type works well in small quantities but if it was the sole source of power for an entire country, you can bet food crops would suffer.

Find an alternative that doesn't require agricultural land to be sacrificed for your fuel tank, and we'll talk.

I also think that Electrically powered vehicles, unless powered via renewable resources themselves, simply move the problem from the street to the power grid.

Hydrogen Fuel, while a seemingly good alternative due to it's abundance, is undone by the fact the tanks currently used to hold the product let it evaporate at an alarming rate, and it's abundance is countered by the fact it's often simply used as an ingredient in other things.

Algae fuel is an interesting one - because it can be farmed in the water (obviously)......again I question the volume of water mass needed per litre of fuel created.

Not to be a naysayer or anything - I think the industry must adapt to survive, it's just the current methods of adaptation are ineffective - otherwise we would be doing them already

[roosterjuicer]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

Crops should be used to feed the population. the amount of corn & other materials needed to create Biofuel crops takes away valuble growing land from other crops. This fuel type works well in small quantities but if it was the sole source of power for an entire country, you can bet food crops would suffer.

We have plenty to feed the population. We actually have so much corn that even with the boom in ethanol we still feed more corn to cows than we do to people.

And i dunno about it taking valuable growing land from other crops. Where the corn growing is good its basically corn, soy beans, and milo. Corn is king because soy beans and milo arent very valuable plants. When was the last time you sat down for some milo soup or something? haha

[IBrake4Rainbows]

You can use this land to be growing other things - other crops than corn & whatnot. While I understand most of the farmers in your area (indeed, most farmers full stop) are part of some company that tells them what to grow where.

What I'm saying is that, while it works currently, if you had to use Ethanaol based fuel as the only source of fuel, there wouldn't be enough ground on the continental US to supply demand.

[roosterjuicer]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

You can use this land to be growing other things - other crops than corn & whatnot. While I understand most of the farmers in your area (indeed, most farmers full stop) are part of some company that tells them what to grow where.

Common misconception/media brainwashing. There are almost big time corporate farms here in nebraska. The story might be different elsewhere but steps have been taken out here to avoid that very thing. Every single farmer i know (most of my friends) owns their own farm entirely or owns some land and rents some land.

Im just saying, with the soil and the weather out here its corn, soybeans, and milo. Corn is king because its much more useful all around than soybeans and milo are.