Petrol Vs Diesel

[henk4]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
it doesnt matter how clean they make diesels run, its their emission characteristics that do it. the info that told me all that was out of the latest wheels magazine. someone wrote in saying that they were appalled at the limited range of engines in australian cars compared to that of european cars. the guy went on to sya he didnt understand why manufacturers were still developing petrol engines when diesel engines have proven themselves as good performance wise as petrol engines, have lower consumption and usually more torque at lower rpm's, over a broader range. i guess it was the editor of the magazine that replied to the letter, saying that a mass shift to diesels in australia would mean health costs would need to be increased, as australias UV intensive environment wouldnt mix with the highly photo-reactive emissions of diesels

If this is really correct than I suppose an instant ban on any diesel power (including trains and trucks) should be applied to Australia (and New Zealand). I am not sure whether I can trust editors of an automotive magazine that is probably dependent on advertisement sales from Australian produced cars. He would not be very eager to tell them that they should switch to diesel, so he is coming up with these sort of things. Nevertheless, if there is scientific proof of these photo-reactive emissions, does that still hold when a particle filter such as is in use by PSA is applied?

[fpv_gtho]

i havent got a clue about that last sentence, but theres no problem with diesels in australia, cause the vast majority of them are only offered on SUV's which are yet to dominate the markets, and petrol prices havent pushed people into consuming less. your right to be wary about trusting the editor, but hes the editor of a well known, 40 year old magazine, so i doubt he got the job simply by putting forward his 2c's on everything

[henk4]

PSA introduced a particle filter 3 years ago when they introduced the 2.2 litre HDI engine in the 607. In the meantime it has become standard on all HDI engines. Initially these filters needed a costly revamp after 80,000 km but they are now maintenance free.
The german industry was wary about the effectiveness of such filters. Subsequently the German Automobil Club (ADAC) carried out a test whereby 80,000 km's were simulated using a Mercedes E-type Diesel and the Peugeot. While the Mercedes produced three litre bottles full of particals, the Peugeot managed to fill half of the bottom of one bottle.
Only now the German authorities have started to push for the introduction of these filters, and we might actually see them in 2004. This would indeed be the next step in global cleaner diesel technology.
It is a misconception that only European diesels are modern, also the Japanese (Toyota D-4d, Mazda's Di-CD and now recently Honda) have introduced engines that are fully up to standard. For other newbies in this area you might also want to look at the specifications of the Jaguar 2.7 V6 (Ford/PSA engine).

[crisis]

Originally posted by henk4
Just wanted to ask: What is the most modern diesel you driven or have been driven in? The elegance of the diesel engine is that they don't need to run to 6000 revs to get the best out of it. The experience is that out of nowhere you instantly develop tons of torque, without having to wake up your neigbour due to overevving your engine. Furthermore I have to explicitly tell my first time passengers that they are in a diesel car, and they normally have difficulties in believing that.

Old ones. I have just returned from the middle of the outback where we were taking turns climbing a big sand dune in our 4x4s. The petrol engines had to rev to keep up momentum to get over. The turbo diesel 80 series Landcruiser climbed at lower revs and with less momentum. Your right about less revs for more torque. Great in 4x4s, great for getting from a-b in passenger vehicles. Cant imagine getting the same thrill from flogging one every now and then like I get from my 350 V8 Commodore. All of your comments are logical and make sense. Sometimes good fun is not about good sense.

[BiTurbo]

Originally posted by crisis


Cant imagine getting the same thrill from flogging one every now and then like I get from my 350 V8 Commodore.

Hey - wouldn't that be cool
doin' laps in your 2010 diesel Monaro (GTO)

[henk4]

Originally posted by crisis
Old ones. I have just returned from the middle of the outback where we were taking turns climbing a big sand dune in our 4x4s. The petrol engines had to rev to keep up momentum to get over. The turbo diesel 80 series Landcruiser climbed at lower revs and with less momentum. Your right about less revs for more torque. Great in 4x4s, great for getting from a-b in passenger vehicles. Cant imagine getting the same thrill from flogging one every now and then like I get from my 350 V8 Commodore. All of your comments are logical and make sense. Sometimes good fun is not about good sense.

Just for your info, a Dutch magazine this week compared four SUV's, the Merc, the Porsche the BMW 4.4 and the Tuareg V10 as the only diesel. In performance and drivability the diesel beat all the three others. I have to admit that I never drove a big V8 petrol engined car, but the characteristics of the modern diesel are very much comparable to lazy petrol V8 that once unleashed produce amazing performances.

[crisis]

Originally posted by henk4
Just for your info, a Dutch magazine this week compared four SUV's, the Merc, the Porsche the BMW 4.4 and the Tuareg V10 as the only diesel. In performance and drivability the diesel beat all the three others. I have to admit that I never drove a big V8 petrol engined car, but the characteristics of the modern diesel are very much comparable to lazy petrol V8 that once unleashed produce amazing performances.

Some comparison. A V10 diesel up against V8s. I would not be surprised to see it win in driveability terms for off road use. The paradox here is that none of these toys are intended for off road use. Still the V10 diesel would make a great towing bus. SUVs and 4x4s aside, the start of this thread mentioned something along the lines of dream cars and in my mind Im thinking Ferraris etc. diesels have their place but I dont think they are synonomous with thrilling driving. Most of you justification for diesels seems to centre around the points of economy and ease of drivability. Clearly our priorities lie in opposite areas.

[henk4]

Originally posted by crisis
Some comparison. A V10 diesel up against V8s. I would not be surprised to see it win in driveability terms for off road use. The paradox here is that none of these toys are intended for off road use. Still the V10 diesel would make a great towing bus. SUVs and 4x4s aside, the start of this thread mentioned something along the lines of dream cars and in my mind Im thinking Ferraris etc. diesels have their place but I dont think they are synonomous with thrilling driving. Most of you justification for diesels seems to centre around the points of economy and ease of drivability. Clearly our priorities lie in opposite areas.

to further clarify, they did not test these SUV's off road, otherwise the BMW would not stand any chance of surviving. So in normal paved road use the diesel came out first. (as a sideline, I find such cars total crap anyway, but that was not the issue).

So my suggestion is, try to find a decent BMW 3 or 5 series fitted with a modern diesel and try for yourself. The new BMW 530D outperforms the 530I.

[Egg Nog]

My parents recently bought a 2000 Jetta TDi 5-speed, and frankly, I'm impressed. It'll take hills and whatever else you can throw at it in fifth gear without shuddering. Makes you really love those immense torque figures. It's a dream to drive and gets over 1000km to the tank during city/highway use. Very Imressive Indeed.

[FLORIN70IL]

ok,I see that americans and aussies are preffering gas engine and cannot blame them for it-the americans diesels are very low tech that's mean very lazy ,noisy,nonefficient.I'm driving a GMC Savana(6.5 liter turbo diesel) so I understand their point of view. The diesel is my choice but only V10(313bhp) or V8(275bhp) from VW Tuareg or A8 .I have to tell you that
the new Toyota Avensis diesel is quieter than the same car with gas engine,the same situation is with Land Rover Freelander,Toyota Rav4,VW Tuareg,and other cars availabe with gas and diesel engines
We all know how cheap is the gas in USA so for europeans, fuel costs and CO2 emissions are very important.

[henk4]

Originally posted by Egg Nog
It's a dream to drive and gets over 1000km to the tank during city/highway use. Very Imressive Indeed.

This is my normal driving experience, dreams can come true, even on the other side of the big pond.

[Egg Nog]

Originally posted by henk4
This is my normal driving experience, dreams can come true, even on the other side of the big pond.

It's awesome, I love it.

[-datsun 1600-]

I chose diesel cause it said they have the same performance and diesel is more cheaper

[bum-man]

diesel obviously...fairly simple motors and they last forever.

[DasModell]

i choose both ...
probably on the family car . i would chose diesel .. but of course the fun car aka track car ... petrol