Two Questions

[cossie]

Mobil 1 is all I use and full synthetic in the drivetrain.High end oils do have alot of additives but not this one.The guys who sold me Activ8 used mobil 1 in demo because they asked me before they showed demo what oil I used,it was at the British motor show in Birmingham in '99. I'm only telling of the impressive results I have seen and of friends who have said the same

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by cossie

Mobil 1 is all I use and full synthetic in the drivetrain.High end oils do have alot of additives but not this one.The guys who sold me Activ8 used mobil 1 in demo because they asked me before they showed demo what oil I used,it was at the British motor show in Birmingham in '99. I'm only telling of the impressive results I have seen and of friends who have said the same

Well.

My last comment I'll leave ( my 'unfortunate experience' ) the Audi Rally team ONLY used Mobil1 in the works Audis. Even when one of the cars was hired out to a team running differnet oil sponsorship the engines only ran Mobil1.
Did all the international rallies filled with mobil1 ( regardless of what the tin it was in said )

I'm surprised at the demo with Mobil1. I'd take your own next time
BTW, are you running the stock 0-40 or the 15-50 Motorsport ?

You have made your choice, and whilst I won't question your experience I'd poitn out to any newbies unsure of oils to learn what you are putting in your engine and the cost/benefit of all the things you're tempted to chose. The information on additives and oils are on the web from guys like 'oilman' on the AlpineRenault site and may others.

[cossie]

The Sierra prefers 15-50 as when I use 0-40 it tends to lose oil through the turbo seals.

[Cyco]

There is also the ultimate in lubrication which is the Di-Ester based oils from NEO and someone else I cant remember right now.

These can be very hard to find, but the independant testing has shown these tend to give easily measurable power gains (Fast 4s a couple of years ago was showing 5-7% increase over Mobil 1 and up to 17% over Shell Helix). Mobile 1 is also not as good as Mobil's Delvac 1 which has a higher ester content.

Almost all current F1 teams use a Di-Ested based oil for their cars, Petronas even told Racecar Engineering that they were making it specially for Sauber, and TWR was reported to use NEO in all their cars regarless of the oil companies sticker on the side of the car.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Cyco

There is also the ultimate in lubrication which is the Di-Ester based oils from NEO and someone else I cant remember right now.

I think they all do but they're not widely available.
Mobil1's racing formula and I think Silkolene Pro 'R' are 2 oilman says are 'better' on paper but may not actually deliver more in a non-blu-prined engine. ( I trust him )
He also said that it's always current formulation that needs compared as the oils have moved over from one type to another (POA?) and are improved.

Almost all current F1 teams use a Di-Ested based oil for their cars, Petronas even told Racecar Engineering that they were making it specially for Sauber, and TWR was reported to use NEO in all their cars regarless of the oil companies sticker on the side of the car.

Tribology is the 'new science'.
BIG engine developers and race teams will have a tribologist (?) descide the optimum lubricant mix for the materials, tolerances and stresses of the mating surfaces in the engine.
Seemingly if the engine designer finds a way to increase performacne then the 'tribology' guys then review the lubricant and will often reformulate the oil for the new setup.
If you subscribe to the Shell Motorsport newsletter then it's amazing the number of races where they will report they are providing a different oil for the race track/conditions/engine setup. it covers bikes and cars and is insightful and interesting.
Makes the 'man in the street' choice real hard though as too much of additives is as bad as not enough for many of these 'exotics' as STP's teflon 'clumping' showed

Good post, cyco, I seem to remember the issue with Esters is they can degrade significantly at very high temperatures and hence aren't very long life in performance engines. Can you confirm if this is the case with these di-esters. I'll ask oilman in the A-R forum. I'm interested in this .....

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

seem to remember the issue with Esters is they can degrade significantly at very high temperatures and hence aren't very long life in performance engines. Can you confirm if this is the case with these di-esters.

I have a very good relationship with the NEO distributor here in Australia, so I can ask him about breakdown research, but as I recall the papers he showed me on it (peer reviewed) showed the Di-Ester breakdown was very low compared to the single ester.

He also provides a test service of samples so you can keep running past the reccomended change interval as long as there is no breakdown of the oil. The best results I have seen on this have been trucks running to ~600,000km before requiring an oil change.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Watch out.
The oil companies managed to get the consumer bodies of the world to agree that by adding cracked hydrocarbons to oil that it could be called synthetic.
This is a million miles away from the protection of a TRUE synthetic - which will have esthers added.
Stick with Silkolene or Mobil1 and you're 'safe'.
Others need careful comparison on consituents to kniw whether it's synthetic oil or marketed as synthetic oil

That's true. Mobil 1's all I have and will ever use. Good stuff.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Cyco

He also provides a test service of samples so you can keep running past the reccomended change interval

Good point.
For anyone in serious competition with an engine that's either difficult or expensive to strip and rebuild it' sworth the 20 quid ( or thereabouts ) that an oil evaluation service provides.
As well as confirming if oil is still doing it's job the analysis can also show how much iron, phosphor, bronze, silicone, glycol and a few others which are indicators of wear of bearings, bores, rings, seals. gaskets.
Definately worth it if competing with a 5G+ engine on a tight budget.
Dont' think you're there yet Bluey

Or find someone with experience. My driver can feel and smell an oil and make a crude analysis. 20+ years in the oil industry and tuning/racing has given HIM a skill few own !!!

[charged]

Nephew use Mobil 1 0-40 in their race cars and they swear by it,I also use a synthetic in my turbo diesel seems fairly clean compared to mineral oil after 5000km

[hotwheels]

biggest bang for your buck right now is gonna be a chip, exhaust and air filter.........hotwheels of turborides

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by charged

Nephew use Mobil 1 0-40 in their race cars and they swear by it,I also use a synthetic in my turbo diesel seems fairly clean compared to mineral oil after 5000km

The Mobil ad that stated they could run the dyno test twice, this is correct. The oil cannot thicken to more than 180% of the starting value, the Mobile1 finished the second run at 178%, Delvac1 at 165% and one of the Di-Ester based oils was at 105% and 112% after the third run.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

I seem to remember the issue with Esters is they can degrade significantly at very high temperatures and hence aren't very long life in performance engines. Can you confirm if this is the case with these di-esters.

According to Tony (Neo Aust) after Rally Aust, at least one of the local WRX (wonder how they got this info) running teams will be running Di-Ester based lubricants next year as it is the only type that will last a whole weekend in the transaxle housing without breaking down. This should calm any fears of it not lasting under high heat.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Cyco

According to Tony (Neo Aust) after Rally Aust, at least one of the local WRX (wonder how they got this info) running teams will be running Di-Ester based lubricants next year as it is the only type that will last a whole weekend in the transaxle housing without breaking down. This should calm any fears of it not lasting under high heat.

Great that you've got a knowledgabel contact, Cyco.
On this Neo, what about in the combustion wall temperatures ?
Are they committing to using it in just the transaxles ? What about the engine ??

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

On this Neo, what about in the combustion wall temperatures ?
Are they committing to using it in just the transaxles ? What about the engine ??

From my understanding it is being used for everything. Engines, transaxles, wheel bearings, CVs etc (last are greases).

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Cyco

From my understanding it is being used for everything. Engines, transaxles, wheel bearings, CVs etc (last are greases).

hmmm, ok, now smells of "sponsorship"

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

now smells of "sponsorship"

Having known Tony since he was first setting up the distributorship, and still getting charged for every product, fanboy may be a better term due to many people being very happy with what they have used.