Two Questions

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Cyco

Having known Tony since he was first setting up the distributorship, and still getting charged for every product, fanboy may be a better term due to many people being very happy with what they have used.

I guess, it's just stretching it to believbe that EVERY prodcut from one company is better than ALL products from ALL others. usually single supplier for everything means sponsorship 0 and for the serisou teams evenings spent decanting the favoured product into the cans and bottles of the sponsor

Anyway, our Alpine-resident oil expert gave an interesting comment on the di-esters saying postive things and deep insights into the longevity. I see that the Silkolene race oil I use in my bike is one without me realising

Hope it helps illiuminate ...........

I have not personally heard of the NEO Synthetic, but Di-esters I am familiar with, and yes they are good, they assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.

The two that we do are Silkolene PRO S and PRO R and Motul 300V range. Tech data here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).

They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below –40 degrees F).
Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's
(about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.
They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO’s are not “polar”, they are “inert”.

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also “polar”.

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.

This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap. You get what you pay for!

Hope this explains, if I have missed anything out let me know!

Cheers

Guy.

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by Cyco

From my understanding it is being used for everything. Engines, transaxles, wheel bearings, CVs etc (last are greases).

I use Mobil 1 engine oil, because synthetics don't breakdown at normal engine operating temperatures. I even put it in the transaxle and felt that it improved/smoothed shift action. This might have just been me hoping for some benefit. The real benefit is thermal breakdown resistance. The only oil that get hot enough to breakdown in a car is engine oil. Isn't using synthetic anywhere else just a waste of money?

[Cyco]

As a slightly side point due to the nature of a Di-Ester lubricant it is impossible to use it as a base stock for a grease, it just stays too runny.

@PerfAdv, read what Marta's friend Guy had to say about Di-Esters "assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction. " This is their advantage over an oil like Mobil 1. Also a standard engine will run hot enough to break down a PAO based oil, so the extra heat coping ability of the very high end synthetics will be a benifit in a standard engine and noticable in a race engine.