Which would you rather have?

[henk4]

OK, to end the hybrid myth:

Auto Motor und sport just tested the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Prius.

Test consumption: 7.3 and 6.7 liters per 100 km respectively, which are levels easily obtainable by current diesel engines with even more power. Only city traffc brings a big advantage, (3.8 l/100 for the Prius) however on the motorway (doing European speeds of 120-130 kph) they both take about 9.3 liter per 100 km, which is about the same as a full size BMW 7- V8 diesel...

[carbrochuretom]

Yes right now back to the original point of this thread...THE SWIFT IS BETTER!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

In North America the combination of not liking diesels and liking big engines, makes for cars having poor fuel consumption, at least poorer than cars ofered in the European or Japanese markets.

while at the same time they fail to realise that diesel engines combine economy with the lazyness and easy going of much bigger petrol engines

[PerfAdv]

Diesel and diesel-based hybrids are the future of the avg cars. VW's TDI is the only diesel option in economy cars and it's not available for sale in all States. That should change for 2008 model year cars and sooner for Mercedes' Bluetec. Also, with the introduction of cleaner, low-sulfur diesel, other manufacturers will start selling their diesel cars.

The Mercedes E 320 BLUETEC will be launched in fall 2006 in the U.S., as the first BLUETEC passenger car going into series production. Based on the powerful 320 CDI V6-engine the Mercedes engineers have created the world’s cleanest diesel engine to date. The crucial factor for this is the latest innovation in the E 320 BLUETEC, a highly efficient technology that significantly reduces nitrogen oxide emissions. The fall 2006 U.S. launch coincides with the rollout in the U.S. market of the low-sulfur diesel fuel that BLUETEC requires.

BLUETEC:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/08/d...esels-for-the/

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by PerfAdv

Diesel and diesel-based hybrids are the future of the avg cars. VW's TDI is the only diesel option in economy cars and it's not available for sale in all States. That should change for 2008 model year cars and sooner for Mercedes' Bluetec. Also, with the introduction of cleaner, low-sulfur diesel, other manufacturers will start selling their diesel cars.





BLUETEC:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/08/d...esels-for-the/

Actually the future of the smally family cars and city cars could very well be highly efficient small petrol engines, with turbochargers or superchargers, as has the Golf GT. The thing is in those lower priced cars the extra expense on a diesel doesn't always make sense.

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Actually the future of the smally family cars and city cars could very well be highly efficient small petrol engines, with turbochargers or superchargers, as has the Golf GT. The thing is in those lower priced cars the extra expense on a diesel doesn't always make sense.

The main problem with diesels of the past was the soot emissions. Now that's not an issue, plus you get better MPG in diesels. Also, refining diesel fuel uses less energy.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by PerfAdv

The main problem with diesels of the past was the soot emissions. Now that's not an issue, plus you get better MPG in diesels. Also, refining diesel fuel uses less energy.

Yes but they are more expensive to buy and maintain, and we you buy a cheap small car it usually means you're on a budget. Plus if you don't do high mileage a diesel doesn't always make sense economically.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Yes but they are more expensive to buy and maintain, and we you buy a cheap small car it usually means you're on a budget. Plus if you don't do high mileage a diesel doesn't always make sense economically.

what do you know about maintenance costs for diesel engines? Why are they higher than petrol engines? Having done close to a million kms with diesel engines, I can tell you that engine maintenance, let alone repair was minimal. For instance the change of plugs is never required...

[PerfAdv]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Yes but they are more expensive to buy and maintain, and we you buy a cheap small car it usually means you're on a budget. Plus if you don't do high mileage a diesel doesn't always make sense economically.

Maybe in the least expensive cars the "diesel option" wouldn't make sense. But the avg car sold in the US is more than $20K. Currently, a Jetta TDI costs only about $2k more than the base 2.5 version. Also, I thought diesels needed less maintenance. No spark plugs, etc.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by PerfAdv

Maybe in the least expensive cars the "diesel option" wouldn't make sense. But the avg car sold in the US is more than $20K. Currently, a Jetta TDI costs only about $2k more than the base 2.5 version. Also, I thought diesels needed less maintenance. No spark plugs, etc.

Yes but we get here a 1.6-litre Jetta which is 1600 € cheaper than the cheapest 1.9-litre diesel. And the Golf is even available with a 1.4-litre engine, which is 3150 € cheaper than the cheapest Golf TDI. And when we are talking about cars that cost about 15k € that's a lot. And diesels do need maintenance, perhaps less often than petrol engines, but they do indeed need it.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

And diesels do need maintenance, perhaps less often than petrol engines, but they do indeed need it.

that is a totally different statement from what you made earlier

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

that is a totally different statement from what you made earlier

But I'm completely mistaken or a normal service costs more on a diesel car than a petrol one?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

But I'm completely mistaken or a normal service costs more on a diesel car than a petrol one?

diesel is cheaper....

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

diesel is cheaper....

You always learn new things, I was completely convinced that a normal service was more expensive in a diesel than in a petrol powered car. Thanks for the info.