We've decided to ruin our lives...

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

You were talking about straight line stability. not the lift off oversteer thing that a Mini causes to flip. In the past motor magazines (and TV programmes) used to test the sensibility to lateral winds by having the car run past enormous fans with the steering locked. Pity they don't do that anymore, as it would for instance also show that the "stable" BMW will be blown mightily further off course than the Lancia. (but of course the BMW has 4 cm less wheelbase..)

What I acutally meant is that the Lancia is very suited to being a high speed cruiser because it's very stable and rarely deviates from the line you pointe with the steering wheel. The Mini on the other hand is like an accident waiting happen. A lot of fun in twisty roads, not so much in the highway.

I guess it was my wrongly worded sentence which caused the confusion.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

What I acutally meant is that the Lancia is very suited to being a high speed cruiser because it's very stable and rarely deviates from the line you pointe with the steering wheel. The Mini on the other hand is like an accident waiting happen. A lot of fun in twisty roads, not so much in the highway.

I guess it was my wrongly worded sentence which caused the confusion.

Probably BMW intended the Mini to behave as a RWD car...
The cruiser aspect is the main advantage of FWD, but cruising is not considered cool, so FWD tends to be discarded in certain circles.
(PS, from my choice of cars you will understand that I rate (comfy) cruising very highly)

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

Probably BMW intended the Mini to behave as a RWD car...
The cruiser aspect is the main advantage of FWD, but cruising is not considered cool, so FWD tends to be discarded in certain circles.
(PS, from my choice of cars you will understand that I rate (comfy) cruising very highly)

I like cruising as long as I can a) lay my hands on something else to have fun or b) the car can do both.

By the way this afternoon I've found out what was wrong with the car.

It was... me. I was driving it all wrong. I was changing gear at 2000rpm. And then I discovered that what I should actually be doing is never letting the engine fall below 2000rpm. In other words I should drive it like an italian. And all of a sudden the car came alive and something surprising happened. It made me smile.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

It made me smile.

and as you indicated earlier, the Repsol guys are smiling with you....

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

and as you indicated earlier, the Repsol guys are smiling with you....

Hahaha. True. But it was so worth it.

[Revo]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

It was... me. I was driving it all wrong. I was changing gear at 2000rpm. And then I discovered that what I should actually be doing is never letting the engine fall below 2000rpm. In other words I should drive it like an italian. And all of a sudden the car came alive and something surprising happened. It made me smile.

Life begins at 4000 rpm

You're getting close to becoming an "enlightened master" degree!

[f6fhellcat13]

Isn't the chassis still flobbery regardless of the revs?
With fuel economy like 15l/100km, good straight line characteristics, and an underwhelming chassis I think you are seeing the muscle-car residue from GM ownership.
Suffice to say, if you ever miss RWD, you can always drive backwards.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

Isn't the chassis still flobbery regardless of the revs?
With fuel economy like 15l/100km, good straight line characteristics, and an underwhelming chassis I think you are seeing the muscle-car residue from GM ownership.
Suffice to say, if you ever miss RWD, you can always drive backwards.

I will maintain, it is not a drivers car. At the limit the car still suffers. And as I said if I only had one car I wouldn't have it.

But, what it does, it does it well. And that italianness, it really is there. You have to dig deep and it's not obvious and tangible, but it's there alright.

[LeonOfTheDead]

If I manage to enjoy the Stilo, the Delta should be like a dream.
Besides, I think the idea of the good old Guido should change, the times when Italian knew how to drive and to drive fast as well is gone.
I can't really think of them (ehm, us) and a country of drivers.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

If I manage to enjoy the Stilo, the Delta should be like a dream.
Besides, I think the idea of the good old Guido should change, the times when Italian knew how to drive and to drive fast as well is gone.
I can't really think of them (ehm, us) and a country of drivers.

It's the style of driving rather than driving very fast. Even at moderate speeds it can make you smile, just so long as you drive the italian way. Never let it go below 2000rpm and change at 3500-4000rpm and the car feels alive and eager.

It's curious because this car is very very different to the BMW. In the 1er within 100 yards you know it's gonna be great, everything feels right. In the Delta it's no so perfect, but it's got charm.

Charm is something that very difficult to explain, and very difficult to achieve. But it's something that can make up for some engineering shortfalls. I know it sound like I'm trying to make up some excuses for it, but no. I reckon the Delta isn't perfect and there's some in which the car can be improved greatly. But, it has something other cars don't have.

Now make a bit more driver oriented, and I'm completely sold.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Now make a bit more driver oriented, and I'm completely sold.

That's the Alfa Milano/149 I guess.

I think that as an A3 Sportsback the Delta is good damn car.
After all I saw a very few A3s not equipped with the 1.9/2.0 TDI, so the lack of a V6 or something more powerful than 200 bhp in the Delta isn't really a problem.

Now, a three doors version with an HF kit...

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

I think that as an A3 Sportsback the Delta is good damn car.
After all I saw a very few A3s not equipped with the 1.9/2.0 TDI, so the lack of a V6 or something more powerful than 200 bhp in the Delta isn't really a problem.

Having driven both, yes.

And by the way an A3 3.2 SB almost crashed into me this morning...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Now make a bit more driver oriented, and I'm completely sold.

making it more "driver oriented" will turn it in a more selfish car. Stiffer suspension, less comfort. I don't know about you, but I do carry passengers many times, and many times I am a passenger in my car. In that position I am less interested in whether the steering is particularly sharp or cornering particularly flat. I am more interested in arriving fresh and relaxed.
(There was a German test once of the C5 where the author mentioned what a relief it was to drive a car that is not mercilessly oriented towards sportiveness)

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by henk4

making it more "driver oriented" will turn it in a more selfish car. Stiffer suspension, less comfort. I don't know about you, but I do carry passengers many times, and many times I am a passenger in my car. In that position I am less interested in whether the steering is particularly sharp or cornering particularly flat. I am more interested in arriving fresh and relaxed.
(There was a German test once of the C5 where the author mentioned what a relief it was to drive a car that is not mercilessly oriented towards sportiveness)

I like the comfort in the Delta, it is nice. But still if it could have better steering, a less van-ish driving position and didn't feel reluctant at the limit it'd be a better car. I do believe that a car can be comfortable and fine to drive at the same time, if the Jag can pull it I'm sure the chaps at Lancia should be able too.

[Clivey]

Congratulations Albert - It looks like quite a nice hatch...

...but it's NOT a Delta.

We were discussing AWD cars in the Golf R20 thread; the original Delta Integrale is undoubtedly an example of an AWD car that's got the necessary soul to be enjoyable.