The Misho Theory

[Misho]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Adding quantity and not time is trying to be half-pregnant. It doesn't work

i know a lady that once got half-pregnant !! she gave birth to a couple of legs and a stomach !!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Misho

if they are inferior then you should get -ve ratings for them and ur Misho ratio will detoriate.
so again the Misho ratio represents the impact of ur posts effectively !

Only works if neg points are delivered in an equal manner to positive.(sic)
Human psychology tells you that will NOT happen, we all tend to be more positive than negative.
So a huge assumption which doens't take into account the human nature of the 'machine' you are modelling.
( Weinberg's Psychology of Computer Programming is an old text, but was ground-breaking and still provides lessons in the role and attitudes of PEOPLE in any system ( software or otherwise ) )

BTW, does anyone here give -ve ratings ?? other than giving them to obvious childish people that only post a couple of posts and never show up again ?

no, only to those childish folks ( 2 in my time ).
I think some like their rep points and it would be churlish to penalise them for one post or point of view.
So your control system has a heavily skewed feedback which isn't accounted in the Misho rating.
Neither is boredom, innovation or repetiveness.
See you did have some KISS in it.
However, by removign these you introduce an error ( perhaps significant ) into the model which is unlikely to be any 'better' than the simplest ( thank you Colin Chapman )

BTW, TQC ??????

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Misho

i know a lady that once got half-pregnant !! she gave birth to a couple of legs and a stomach !!

Well being the pedant, that was WHOLLY pregnant of an unviable foetus.

[Misho]

so if i make it simple, you say its not accurate.
and if i make it more involved, you say it too complicated and useless !!
what can i do ??? is it my fault that i am trying to improve the system currently in use ??
i have said it before and i will say it again, the Misho ratio is an improvement to the current system and is intended to work with it.

as for the "errors" with the Misho ratio that u have mentioned, do they also apply to the system currently in use ??

the answer is YES.

so why didnt u mention them b4 ?!!!

dont be hating !! lets just all unite on the fact that the Misho ratio is a significant improvement to the system currently in place so that Wouter can actually implement it !!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Misho

so if i make it simple, you say its not accurate.
and if i make it more involved, you say it too complicated and useless !!
what can i do ??? is it my fault that i am trying to improve the system currently in use ??
i have said it before and i will say it again, the Misho ratio is an improvement to the current system and is intended to work with it.

as for the "errors" with the Misho ratio that u have mentioned, do they also apply to the system currently in use ??

the answer is YES.

so why didnt u mention them b4 ?!!!

dont be hating !! lets just all unite on the fact that the Misho ratio is a significant improvement to the system currently in place so that Wouter can actually implement it !!

All you are doing is replacing one set of errors with others.

You haven't REALLY taken on the complexity of the differnt ratings you will give the various posting percentiles.

As I'd said at the start KISS.

The system today is simple.
It has errors.
The Misho rating is more complex.
It has errors.
Creating a realistic model is VERY complex and guess what.
even IT will have errors ( tho admittedlay with a lot of effort only small )

Trying to make a better 'rating' system forgets that the fundamental INPUT is SUBJECTIVE. So objective sysmts control modesl won't work.

With the various feedbacks in the forum - written abuse, ignoring posts and reps points - then simple modelling will fail as you are in an open control system which will exhibit chaotic behaviour.

So applying KISS, Chapman and if it aint broke don't fix it then I was just pointing out that in fixing it you will only bring in another broke system.

Going back to first principles in TQC...
- What are all the things identifiable and measurable with problems in forums ?
- - Doing Pareto analysis, which one comes out top ?
- - - Is it significantly ahead of the others ?
- - - - If yes, would any fix decrease it by an order of magnitude ?
THEN - and only then - think about applying that fix

You're idea is interesting and a nice intellectual solution.
But engineering is about PRACTICAL solutions and if you've looked up the sources and situations of the various quotes I've used it may have opened your eyes to that.
There again, maybe not

The point I am making Misho, is that the best engineers know when NOT to tinker.
I was trying to point that out.
Mental masturbation is fun, but lets be practical wrt to making changes to the forum.
I'd rather Wouter addressed getting DivX/MPEG4 videos supported as attachments and embedded as giving more value than changing the deck chairs ( oops another quote )

[crisis]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

All you are doing is replacing one set of errors with others.

You haven't REALLY taken on the complexity of the differnt ratings you will give the various posting percentiles.

As I'd said at the start KISS.

The system today is simple.
It has errors.
The Misho rating is more complex.
It has errors.
Creating a realistic model is VERY complex and guess what.
even IT will have errors ( tho admittedlay with a lot of effort only small )

Trying to make a better 'rating' system forgets that the fundamental INPUT is SUBJECTIVE. So objective sysmts control modesl won't work.

With the various feedbacks in the forum - written abuse, ignoring posts and reps points - then simple modelling will fail as you are in an open control system which will exhibit chaotic behaviour.

So applying KISS, Chapman and if it aint broke don't fix it then I was just pointing out that in fixing it you will only bring in another broke system.

Going back to first principles in TQC...
- What are all the things identifiable and measurable with problems in forums ?
- - Doing Pareto analysis, which one comes out top ?
- - - Is it significantly ahead of the others ?
- - - - If yes, would any fix decrease it by an order of magnitude ?
THEN - and only then - think about applying that fix

You're idea is interesting and a nice intellectual solution.
But engineering is about PRACTICAL solutions and if you've looked up the sources and situations of the various quotes I've used it may have opened your eyes to that.
There again, maybe not

The point I am making Misho, is that the best engineers know when NOT to tinker.
I was trying to point that out.
Mental masturbation is fun, but lets be practical wrt to making changes to the forum.
I'd rather Wouter addressed getting DivX/MPEG4 videos supported as attachments and embedded as giving more value than changing the deck chairs ( oops another quote )

Talkin of mental masturbation, that is one beautifully constructed argument. And I kinda like Mishos theory even if I cant be bothered working it out.

[fpv_gtho]

Hey Misho, i think the ratio's a good idea, but for now i dont feel like most people think its needed all that much. sure it outlines the different effort people go to to earn respect off others, but even before the rep system you could tell that people like crisis, Egg Nog and Matra were top blokes whilst others like the motor twins (motorhead and motormaniac) BiTurbo, Guyt_x and r34 were people UCP didnt want to know about.

maybe with the right amount of effort more people would like it, but for now i think its just another confusion. keep working on it though

[Misho]

Here is what I will do.

1) Withdraw from posting ever again at UCP. And from visitng the forums at all.

2) Join any of the other car forum sites and take a 3-4 months period to establish myself there, and then promote my theory over there.

Thank you all, I will really miss you. Now I will just try and finish off some of the threads that I was active in.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Misho

Here is what I will do.

1) Withdraw from posting ever again at UCP. And from visitng the forums at all.

2) Join any of the other car forum sites and take a 3-4 months period to establish myself there, and then promote my theory over there.

Thank you all, I will really miss you. Now I will just try and finish off some of the threads that I was active in.

Say, Misho, when you're working in engineering and the project manager says to stop on the task and do somethign else as it's not going to work out are you going to change jobs ?

You'll be moving a lot.

Successful companies and project managers will spend at LEAST 25% of the time working on stuff they just junk.
I've worked for Hewlett-Packard and Agilent Technologies as engineer, project manager, product manager and business manager and you better get used to change and rejection. That's the way of engineering 2 years ago I spent 6 months 6 days a week in laba nd with customers on a product that *I* then wrote the conclusion to delay. There's no loss of pride in making the choice !

Now I'm not saying to junk the idea, but as has been pointed out maybe we've other things that work for us or we can improve that are better uses of your skills in helping UCP ?

I'd miss your other posts

[crisis]

Originally Posted by Misho

Here is what I will do.

1) Withdraw from posting ever again at UCP. And from visitng the forums at all.

Dont do that.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Don't leave. I think you'll have a hard time promoting it anyway, most forums i have been on say a reputation/karma system actually is killing their forum.

Don't get angry with us because we don't accept your theory is better than the system we've got in place, most of the people you talk to here anyway don't like Rep, i know i don't.

Thanks for your hard work on it, but in the end it is a bit complex when the system we have seems to do almost the exact same job.

We don't want you to leave, your a valuable member of our forums, but you must understand some people have opposing views, and constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

[Misho]

Originally Posted by Misho

Here is what I will do.

1) Withdraw from posting ever again at UCP. And from visitng the forums at all.

2) Join any of the other car forum sites and take a 3-4 months period to establish myself there, and then promote my theory over there.

Thank you all, I will really miss you. Now I will just try and finish off some of the threads that I was active in.

Jesus Christ !!!!!

I forget to add a small sarcastic face at the end of the post and you guys actually beleive this ?? Me ? Leaving UCP ? u cant be serious ! i would never give u that pleasure !!

guess i better make a public announcement. i think the "Official save Misho thread" is the best place to do it.