View Full Version : is it possible to get nothing?
ok a hypothses for you> is nothing impossible?
ok i was wondering at work the other day is nothing impossible
i sure do think it is
nothing as in > a chamber with nothing inside not even air or light
my theory is that there is no possible way you can get a true vacume
im trying to prove here that even that you suck all the air out of a vacume chamber there will still be small particals and you will never find a vacume or a tank strong enough to remove everything?
this has been bothering me for a while now
if any of you lot know more or can fill me in please eloborate
is nothing impossible? :confused:
baddabang
01-22-2005, 03:12 PM
huh?
Never have I heard someone go on about absolutly nothing. Literaly.
Very Interesting topic you have here. I suppose nothing could be made if you had the funds and equipment.
carlover
01-22-2005, 03:14 PM
I suppose nothing could be made if you had the funds and equipment.
It seems nothing is always made when you have the funds and equipment. :D
6'bore
01-22-2005, 03:15 PM
U made a pretty big post and said absolutely nothing. I don't know why it has been bothering you. It definitly won't bother me
hard to explain but i mean nothing as in matter means
like nothing at all! i think its impossible
i do think up weird things at work i have an enquiring brain!
6'bore
01-22-2005, 03:17 PM
hard to explain but i mean nothing as in matter means
like nothing at all! i think its impossible
i do think up weird things at work i have an enquiring brain!
Once agian you said nothing? where is this thread heading :scared: ( :confused: probably sending all the UCP members into insanity)!
my porsche
01-22-2005, 03:26 PM
i get what your saying, can you have absolutely nothing? as ina chamber that has no atoms or molecules, nor air, nor light waves, i think some one could do it, but it would be a hollow chamber, the chamber would concave under the pressure required to get absolutely everything out of the chamber
ok say you were in the room with me and i held up my hand and said
"what is infront of my hand 6"bore?"
you would reply with nothing naturally
but if you thought more scientific and deeply
you would come up with things like ,dust particals,all the gasses in the air , skin particals etc............
im just wondering if you got a sealed chamber with a vacume would you be able to achieve "nothing"
and yea im probs mad yes lol
SilverG35SportC
01-22-2005, 03:29 PM
Isnt a black whole a vacuum??? Correct me if im wrong please.
6'bore
01-22-2005, 03:30 PM
ok say you were in the room with me and i held up my hand and said
"what is infront of my hand 6"bore?"
you would reply with nothing naturally
but if you thought more scientific and deeply
you would come up with things like ,dust particals,all the gasses in the air , skin particals etc............
im just wondering if you got a sealed chamber with a vacume would you be able to achieve "nothing"
and yea im probs mad yes lol
Ohhhhhhhhh. I see. O.k know you are making sense
i get what your saying, can you have absolutely nothing? as ina chamber that has no atoms or molecules, nor air, nor light waves, i think some one could do it, but it would be a hollow chamber, the chamber would concave under the pressure required to get absolutely everything out of the chamber
thats another one of my points , well done my porsche you are on the same wave length as me here
plain and utterly insane! :D
just somthing that i have been asking various people after a scientific answer
but yes i thing that the chamber will implode under the force of having "nothing" inside it !
Egg Nog
01-22-2005, 03:33 PM
i get what your saying, can you have absolutely nothing? as ina chamber that has no atoms or molecules, nor air, nor light waves, i think some one could do it, but it would be a hollow chamber, the chamber would concave under the pressure required to get absolutely everything out of the chamber
Not neccesarily... a complete vaccuum doesn't at all entail infinite force. A general purpose scientific canister (for Acetelene or Oxygen, etc) or even a little whipped cream whipped could easily hold a complete vacuum inside of them.
For a large expanse of nothingness, look at space :) - in deep space, there are vast expanses of absolutely nothing (and thus, a complete vaccuum), the only thing in them being tiny particles located thousands or even millions of kilometres apart.
But yes, you can definitely have absolutely nothing. Almost all of the volume of the universe is filled (?) with it ;)
Isnt a black whole a vacuum??? Correct me if im wrong please.
no because a black hole would be sucking stuff into it and even the space around the plannets there is bits of particals and dust
yes but how would a accetelene bottle support itself if there was nothing ? i think the pressure would be too great
its impossible!
even though the chamber might not have any air in it ( if that is possible)
it will still have heat , like light its a type of radiation and is still classed as somthing
even if the tank temp fell to -180 degrese kelvin , the lowest the temp can ever fall its still classed as somthing
so nothing is impossible!
correct me if you think im wrong? :)
Matra et Alpine
01-22-2005, 03:47 PM
You're wrong :)
However if you like playing natural philosophy, HOW woudl you know there was somethign in their anyway ?
Heisenberg uncertainty principle applies, any attempt to measure the nothing incolves SOMETHING ( even if it's only gravitons ) and hence ipso-fato something is now inside it :)
Murphy
01-22-2005, 03:48 PM
I fink its impossible to have absolutely nothing
even if in some way you managed to get rid of all sorts of particles from in this " chamber " The chamber your actually using is something......so therefore it cannot be classed as nothing
and if you vacummed it you dont still have nothing......as a vacuum again is actually something..this is ma hypothesis neways lol confusin yer..... mad...yer.......but true!!!
yes but i have just proved it for myself here , i was not classing the chamber here btw
just what is inside it
but matra you have made me think much more deeply now
ok say we did not include this "mesuring device" of whatever sort it is
i know now that nothing is impossible because heat/cold is still somthing
but back to the air side of this argument
could all the air be removed from this vacume chamber without it caving in on itself?
is a complete true vacume possible?
Rockefella
01-22-2005, 04:12 PM
Well, not only would you have to get all the molecules out of it, you would have to get rid of natural forces too right? For example, would you be able to get rid of gravity in there? not sure, hasn't been done from what I recall, but I'm guessing you would because the definition of nothing means there are no objects there, aka, there should be no gravity. If you took all the molecules out, it would be absolute zero because there would be 0 energy inside of the container and as MP said, the container would probably implode from the surrounding pressure.
yea i think it would implode
and gravity is another desiding factor
unless you put it in space !
Hell_Unleashed
01-22-2005, 05:26 PM
wow... *cough*shrink*cough*
:Exige:
01-22-2005, 05:32 PM
Youve also got to consider things that cannot be detected .. such as dark matter. In the time it took you to read that sentence billions of "bits" of dark matter have passed through you. Scientists still have to discover the purpose of dark matter .. and theres more dark matter than anything else I believe. I just love dark matter *runs to damp cave safe from UCPs awful influences*
SIMPLETON
01-22-2005, 05:47 PM
Youve also got to consider things that cannot be detected .. such as dark matter. In the time it took you to read that sentence billions of "bits" of dark matter have passed through you. Scientists still have to discover the purpose of dark matter .. and theres more dark matter than anything else I believe. I just love dark matter *runs to damp cave safe from UCPs awful influences*
That's..... uhhh...... kinda scary. You know?
Renesis
01-22-2005, 06:19 PM
yea i think it would implode
the reason why things implode is because of forces on the outside..
in a whipped cream canister there is pressure on the outside walls because air is "trying" to get in. Its all about molecules always trying to find equilibrium.
by the way, a space ship cannot implode in space, but it will explode. the molecular nature of a space ship actually makes it "want" to explode
anyway.. Practically, it is impossible to make a perfect vacuum. A perfect vacuum is defined as a region in space without any particles.
The problem is that to maintain a vacuum in a region you have to shield it from the environment. It is not difficult to make a container that would prevent atoms from entering the region.
The first problem is that the container itself will radiate photons (which in turn can create electron positron pairs in the vacuum) if it is not kept at a temperature of 0°K. Note that a perfect vacuum has by definition a temperature of 0°K. reaching 0 °K is practically impossible.
The second problem is that there are weakly interacting particles that could enter the region. No matter how thick the walls of the container are, there is always a finite probability that, say, a neutrino or something of the like would enter the region.
NAZCA C2
01-22-2005, 06:31 PM
sounds like you were getting a whole lot of nothing done at work. i hope your boss doenst see this thread unless your a scientist or something.
Sweeney921
01-22-2005, 07:16 PM
there's also the theory of absolute zero. no matter how much you work at taking the energy out of something, you will never take it all out. So that means nothing can be -459 degrees fahrenheit
Ferrari Tifosi
01-22-2005, 08:01 PM
Isnt a black whole a vacuum??? Correct me if im wrong please.
Space itself is a vacuum
and gravity is another desiding factor
unless you put it in space !
Gravity is present everywhere, even in space. No such thing as absolute weightlessness.
pimento
01-22-2005, 09:44 PM
Me and my friend used to argue about whether or not Nothing is Something. My position is that by the very definition, nothing is the only thing that isn't something. The void of nothing is defined by all the something that is around it. Kind of the Ultimate Zero. This used to keep us entertained in chemisty class, it was much more interesting than chemistry.
sounds like you were getting a whole lot of nothing done at work. i hope your boss doenst see this thread unless your a scientist or something.
nope im an engineer, it does have its boring moments! :p
so even though there was a way of possibly getting a complete true vacume
there would still be dark matter/gravity/darkness/and small tiny parts of the chamber wall breaking off and entering the empty nothing ness space making somthing
so theory proved > you can never make nothing !
aruge that is i have left anything out or you think im wrong :)
I took a match to the front lawn and tried to smoke all of the weeds/
I lead myself to believe that I can become one with the trees/
Oh please! That's impossible, try to bond with the cheese/
I opened up the fridge and it was set to twenty degrees/
The blast from the low temperture dropped me down to my knees/
I screamed "Jeez! How cold do you need it to make the ice freeze!"/
He said, "Ice doesn't freeze dude, you've mistaken that for water.../
I'm sorry but I had to turn the temperture down to make the ice harder"/
"By the way, I should introduce myself, you can call me Mr. Carter.../
I'm the guy bangin' on the walls when you're loudly screwing my daughter"/
I grabbed the man by the tooth and threw him into the carnival booth/
Started shootin' automatic BB guns at him with the rest of the youth/
I crushed a chicken embryo in my palm to make an "egg fist"/
I rhymed about nothing, so there you go Paul, it exist/
umm please put that to me in english now!
read through it twice now and still don't get what its getting at?
fpv_gtho
01-23-2005, 04:25 AM
could all the air be removed from this vacume chamber without it caving in on itself?
is a complete true vacume possible?
Maybe if you had that vacuum chamber inside of ANOTHER vacuum chamber to try and reduce that relative pressure :p
umm please put that to me in english now!
read through it twice now and still don't get what its getting at?
Read it again.
Maybe if you had that vacuum chamber inside of ANOTHER vacuum chamber to try and reduce that relative pressure :p
mate you have just taken this a step further l, your making my brain overload with even more crap stop it lol
and what i really don't get the meaning of that passage!
are you trying to say im crazy because i know it allready! lol
fpv_gtho
01-23-2005, 04:57 AM
mate you have just taken this a step further l, your making my brain overload with even more crap stop it lol
Well which would be easier, trying to achieve a true vacuum whilst experiencing the atmospheric pressure on Earth, or whilst in the vacuum of space? Trying to have a true vacuum inside a less efficient vacuum sounds a bit easier doesnt it?
yea true!
that idear is phesable actually becasue the outside pressure of the inside tank would be near enough nothing therefore not making it want to emplode under the outside pressure
but i still think that not all matter would be able to be extracted from the internal tank
its impossible!
Matra et Alpine
01-23-2005, 05:38 AM
Guys pressure at sea level is only 14 pounds per square inch.
It's not that hard to make a PRACTICAL vacuum.
The THEORITICAL vacuum isn't feasible only because it's impossible to "hoover UP" every atom and molecule inside the containment field. AND as we've already said it still isn't nothing as radio waves are passing throguh it. As well as gravity waves and the presence of dark matter and sub-atomic particles. You can't remove those (yet!)
The Tuner
01-23-2005, 05:45 AM
what, whaat???
u seem to b more bored than anyone arguing abt the vaccuum. :D
and murphy, welcome to ucp, and no, not all of us are engineers who think abt vaccuums the whole time. :D
the truest thing anyone has sed here, imo, is matra, wit his heisenbergundingaling uncertainity principle.
he jus posted again, and methinx that he rite, theoretical vaccuum is not possible, yet. regardless, can anyone think up a use for this vaccuum, even if we could make it? if space is not this theoretical vaccuum, we cant use it as a simulated space environment either....not that im against scientific research or anything, jus think ppl shud concentrate on improving todays cars and solving diseases and finding replacement for fossil fuels so that no more countries need to b liberated....
good q tho, keep it up...
yea engineering does have its dull moments!
its just my enquiring mind
but thanks to matra for clearing that one up
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE NOTHING
i will be able to sleep tonight! lol
but another one would be to try and get your head around "never ending"
like space is
Murphy
01-23-2005, 12:47 PM
[QUOTE=The Tuner]
and murphy, welcome to ucp, and no, not all of us are engineers who think abt vaccuums the whole time. :D
QUOTE]
haha cheerz......... im an engineer too lol and on realli borin days ...... u have 2 find sumat 2 do...... jus go mad fink obut vacuums and answer pauls dodgy questions eh