What divides people into brand loyalty

[SHAKER]

What makes you passionate car enthisiasts either Ford fands Holden fans or a fan of any other car brand?

[SHAKER]

Well seems i have to get the ball rolling, initially i was a Holden fan, but then when i started reading about the falcon gts, (especially the GTHOs), i almost instantly changed my mind. With there superior front suspension, theyre legendary differential and toploader gearboxes, and bigger brakes, not to mention theyre tough looks, i had to yield and change teams!...my theory is that theyres a lot of people that choose one brand over another almost purely for the look of the car, where as i look at the parts and running gear of the cars, what do you guys think?

[fpv_gtho]

well i cant really vouch for either, i originally started going for ford cause a friend of my older brother was also a ford fan. now i kinda go for australian cars in general with exceptions of course. basically, i think it means if i were handed the keys to a VYSS, i'd take it for a spin rather than chuck the keys back.

[SHAKER]

yes but ur obviously a proud ford fan as am i, i mean i look at the write ups comparing cars like the xa gt to the hq monaro, and the holden product gets a bad wrap all the time, the only good remarks they get are about the looks off the cars, Imagine if holden had invented parts such as control blade irs, the 9 inch diff and four valve v8 engine instead of ford....just to mention a few products........i prob wouldnt be a ford fan.

[fpv_gtho]

well with coil springs over leafs, the HQ shouldve had it over the XA

[SHAKER]

well ive owned a hq and currently have an xa....theyres no doubt the xa has a more solid feel and not as spongy as the hq.mind you the q was a 6 cylinder my xa has a 302w v8......which should make the hq lighter around the front end....but the best handler i had would of been a toss up between my xc gxl fairmont and my esp xe(6cyl)......they both handled and stopped well for big cars

[fpv_gtho]

i'd say the XE wouldve been easier to throw through corners, but i like the look of XA-XC's when theyre lowered heaps with nice 15' mags.

my mum used to have a V8 XA fairmont, my dad ended up sellign it to this guy a friend of his knew, well anyway, the guys taken a friend of his for a drive in it, and his friend commented that it went pretty good for a 6 cylinder and when he was told it was a V8, he said it sounded nothing like one, so pretty much the next day the guy went out and put a dual pipe exhaust and 4V carb on it

[SHAKER]

hehe it reminds me off my dads old v8 302w xw fairmont, it was quiet and sounded nothing like a v8, it was all original down to the starfish hubcaps.....i still see it now and then a "p" plater owns it, hope hes not a revhead it hate to see that car trashed, anway heres some of the fords ive owned.
1966 302w xr fairmont
1972 302w xa falcon 500
1972 xa 460 coupe
1971 xygt
1974 xb coupe(6cyl)
1976 351c gxl fairmont
1984 xe esp(6 cyl)

[fpv_gtho]

sounds like a nice list there, but i couldnt really pick my favourites as i'd just end up rewriting the list. if i was to get a falcon and keep it stock though, i'd go for an XR and i think if i wanted to tune one up i'd choose an XB

[SHAKER]

well id have to say without any doubt what so ever, the xygt was definantly my favourite, with a 320-330 hp clevo under the bonnet and close ratio toploader box it was definantly a lot of fun, and the amounts of thumbs up and comments ud get just driving past people on the street was always good for a laugh......then came the big beasty 460 xa, with its dark blue duco, gt panels,(guards,fenders and gt grille) and 10 inch wide rear centerline mags, she was a beast, i wish i stilll had it,it was the best looking car on the streets in my opinion lol....i still own the xa 500 its a one owner and has been extensively modified, running gear, and has gt interior and pwr steering, its in immaculate condition, but when i can afford it all have to lower it and get those 10 inch centerline mags on it aswell!

[fpv_gtho]

aww, sounds pretty sweet. you'll get along pretty well with falc, hes got a falcon 500 that i think hes saving up to try and mod it out

[SHAKER]

Yes i read about it in his info, i think its an Xy, but with my experience, if you havent got the big bucks to play around with to modify a car, its way cheaper to buy something already done aslong as its in good nick, then spend a few grand here or there changing or fixing things to how you would like it to be or look or go!

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, i think its something like about 10% of the price of modifications people usually can get around with charging when it comes time to sell it, if theyre lucky. if you bothered to tune up an original phase 3 the price would drop

[SHAKER]

yes that is why people usually sell there cars in parts after they have built them....you get more of your capital back that way...well whats the point of owning a phase 3......youd never drive it and it would just sit there and do nothing......id rather spend my money on a street machine and drive it around.

[fpv_gtho]

i'd love to own a phase 3, just for bragging rights. ive seen a coupleo f tank fairlanes with supercharged 460's in them and thouht they'd be alright to own, but i think i'd rather something authentique

[SHAKER]

well my ultimate dream would be to race a xy gtho phase 3.(not an original ofcourse).....in the historic car races held around the country....they say you should follow ur dreams!

[fpv_gtho]

that'd be a pretty neat thing to do, but you'd want to upgrade the tires and brakes lol

[SHAKER]

yes well they allow certain modifications, theyre certainly a lot quicker than when they raced them originally....i think tyres and rims are ugraded a little but brake size and configuration must be as standard issue.

[fpv_gtho]

tires have come forward an immense amount since the late 60's/early 70's, so the cars should be able to shave a couple of seconds off from just that, but keeping the mechanics of the car original keeps with tradition and the caregory i suppose

[SHAKER]

yes but i still think they definantly had the raw end of the stick in the 60s/70s racing for 500 miles around bathurst with no track safety or race seats and soforth in the cars, these days they race only 6 or 7 laps in the historic car events and a lot of technology has crept into the cars as youve just mentioned with the tyre comment. I still look at the billy brown barrel roll down conrod in 1970 in the phase 3 and seeing all that raw fuel spill out the fuel tank(160 litres worth).just makes me shudder!

[Matra et Alpine]

well my ultimate dream would be to race a xy gtho phase 3.(not an original ofcourse).....in the historic car races held around the country....they say you should follow ur dreams!

Go for it.

Competing tomorrow in a post-historc rally in a restored 1973 MGB GT.
The entry list has Escort Mexicos, Saabs, TR4, TR5, TR6 and a whole
host of Minis.
Weather looks like ice and maybe snow, so it's gonna be fun !!!!

I'm taking my Alpine back onto track this year after a 2 year layoff.
Finances don't permit me to keep repairing the damage I do :D

If you don't go race a classic car NOW then there may not be enough parts around to be able to do it in the future.

[SHAKER]

well i doubt a lack of parts will ever be a problem ih australia, especially where im from as weve got the oldest cars in the western world still cruising the streets, and theres plenty of aftermarket companies around making parts for old classics such as rare spares.

[fpv_gtho]

plus, not to mention most of the special bits were found on the engine

[SHAKER]

plus, not to mention most of the special bits were found on the engine
dont quite know what you mean by that one?

[fpv_gtho]

well they never really used to enhance more than the engine and drivetrain. most of the bodywork and interior came straight off other models

[SHAKER]

well i was looking for a light lense for the rear pillar of my xa and i had no probs finding one at rare spares.they didnt even have to order one in as they kept them in stock!...so those kinds of bits and peices arent a prob, not that youd worry about a light lense if you were racing a car in historics!

[fpv_gtho]

well it would make the car look good at least. its surprising though how the people doing the historics races can crash teh front end in on their car and they hop out of it with a smile on their face and just laugh it all off

[SHAKER]

well funny you should say that im currently watching the targa tasmania and the amount of cars that are crashing is truly staggering...i spose they got the money to throw around

[fpv_gtho]

i wouldnt mind entering that, but ive heard its invitation only. the footage ive seen of some classics taking it around a corner too fast and loosing the rear end is funny, but i cant recall any good crashes from what ive seen

[HoldenHFV6]

I think he is talking about targa NZ which was just on TV

[SHAKER]

I think he is talking about targa NZ which was just on TV
unless theyres another targa tasmania race, thatll be the one =P

[fpv_gtho]

whens targa tasmania on?? also does anyone know the name of the rally from sydney to bathurst and back?

[HoldenHFV6]

The next targa tas is between April 27 and May 2.

[HoldenHFV6]

The other rally you are talking about might be the east coast rally?? Thats on between 11th and 14th of August

[fpv_gtho]

that could be it, but i dunno. it was on a couple of months ago but. is that right though that targa tasmania is invitation only

[SHAKER]

well i know the classic adelaide is on early november, i didnt even hear anything about it this year though.a few years ago i was actually behind glen ridge when he was driving his car in between stages( they have to abide by normal road rules when driving to the start of the next stages)....he was driving a xt falcon that year.and no i wasnt in the race i went to one of the country towns to see the cars!

[HoldenHFV6]

I think it is invite only. But I saw on targa NZ that they have a thing where you follow the targa cars from start to finish in your own cars and drive around race circuits on the way. That could be fun

[fpv_gtho]

i think glen ridge is trying to make a name for himself as a revhead or something, with the car show and now being spotted at road rallies.

im kinda interested in going in some race meets that arent neccesarily tracks and all these targas are popping up so i wouldnt mind competeing in one. i guess the V* supercar drivers feel the same whenever they go to the AGP, indy or clipsal

[SHAKER]

well Glenn ridge has been competing in the classic adelaide for many years in many different brands...yeah being at a tracks prob better though in terms of viewing because when the cars go past on a "classic"street event, you dont get to see them again unless you follow them to the next road stage

[fpv_gtho]

well the benefit of where i live, is eastern creek raceway is at the most 10 minutes away, oran park is maybe 20-30 minutes away, but bathurst is at least an hour and a half away and is a proper road anyway so you cant use it as a racetrack.

[SHAKER]

i still remeber my mate ringing me on his mobile while he was fanging around at the bathurst track.i could hear his tryes screeching thru the corners....he also decided to video tape his car doing 200 kmh whilst he was driving it...its good to watch hehe

[fpv_gtho]

LOL, when i went on the track there was a coppa hiding at the bottom of conrod straight at the back of caltex chase trying to catch anyone. the annoying bit about the place is whenever your tires screech it echoes everywhere. also, to add to what i was saying befor, about 10 minutes away from where i live theres also the remains of the old MT Druitt track

[SHAKER]

well ive never been to bathurst, i want to tho.....ive been to the clipsal a number of times, gawd the street machine cruises that weekend are wicked...ive also sped around the adelaide international raceway circuit when the gt nationals where on(legally)....mind you its getting a bit run down after bob jane stopped spending money on it...whens he gonna give us competition drag racing back at AIR aswell????its about time he done something

[fpv_gtho]

its amazing though, how big the track seems when your stuck doing the speed limit around there cause the coppa down the bottom's either gunna hear your tires or catch you coming down conrod. what i was surprised most about though was how steep the incline really is coming out of the caltex chase

[SHAKER]

everyne says that tv doesntdo the track justice.its a 1 in 6 grade going up the hill ive been told

[fpv_gtho]

well it felt a bit more than that, but i didnt get the chance to hop out the car and take a look. at skyline, its not just having to turn in before you see the corner that needs worrying, you also need to worry about the glare from the sun which got pretty bad when i was there. coming down the mountain the corners are decieving because right on the curbs and against the concrete walls its like the camber of the road dips right in

[SHAKER]

well imagine driving flat chat on the top of the mountain with 400hp and little bicycle tyres with no fences along the mountain edge....for 500 miles!.thats the way they use to do it!

[fpv_gtho]

thats just....downright scary. i'd hate to imagine what it was like when they crashed into each other or crashed into trees, it was bad enough when i saw the footage of moffats falcon going off the top and DJ going through the trees

[SHAKER]

without doubt the most scariest crash at bathurst was the phase 111 of brown barrel rolling at high speed down conrod straight along the armco fencin,he escaped with just a black eye, the car was completly written off , ironacilly he barrel rolled a phase 2 the year before causing the famous pile out which wiped out a lot of the field......glad he never raced a phase 4, id hate to imagine where he would of ended up lol

[fpv_gtho]

i think i saw the footage of one of those, but i wasnt looking for the differences between an XW and XY so i couldnt say which it was, but im pretty sure they sell a scale model of the car on the armco fencing

[SHAKER]

they sell the a modell of the car after it rolled on the fence?....well it would of looked nothing like a car...except maybe for the rear end.

[fpv_gtho]

well i know they sell a model of a car on its roof with some armco fencing right through the middle of its roof and the car bowed over like a banana

[SHAKER]

well that would be the one.any pics of it on the net?

[fpv_gtho]

i dunno, i just saw it i think in unique cars a while ago so i dont even know whos making it, you might get lucky and find it on biante's site

[SHAKER]

collectable classics are making some good die cast models now, the guy one of the automotive shops in the shopping mall said that they were actually better quality then the biante models?

[fpv_gtho]

well at the time biante was the only company i could think of, but im sure if you look hard enough you'll find plenty of top quality model companies. i think what made the HO on its roof so special was it was presented as a chunk of the track, not just the upside down car

[SHAKER]

well sounds like an intersting concept, focusing on the track and not on the car?..well i remember in 98 biante released some gtho models signed by moffat and they sold for about 250 dollars, last i heard one sold for a thousand dollars...(that was a few years ago to)

[fpv_gtho]

were those models of all 4 HO models, all in red with back stripes? if they are i think ive seen them before

[SHAKER]

well im pretty sure moffat only signed the phase"3" model as thats the one that gave him the bathurst win.....yes im still not over the 1969 loss to holden when moffat should of won that one to!eventhough i wasnt even born back then lol

[fpv_gtho]

what happened then that makes you think moffat shouldve won

[SHAKER]

well basically to cut a long story short, ford bought in a new semi race tyre in 69, moffat was the only ford driver to test it before bathurst and he gave it the thumbs up. Ford put these tyres on every gtho in 69 for the race, and every gtho bar moffats were getting blowouts or excessive tyre wear, as a precaution whilst leading the race they pulled moffat in for a tyre change, when infact he didnt need one at all. Over they coming days they released Moffat with his ginger driving style was the only driver who was capable of looking after the tyres(although he did have the luxury of testing on them to be fair to the other drivers) In later year he went on to explain with the "detroit locker" rear end on the gthos, you had to wait for it to "click" in before excelarating around the corners, which none of the other drivers did, which created wheelspin and therefore destroyed the skinny tyres in no time.Ford even went as so far to put in a full page add in the newspapers around the countrywith a heading of"we were deflated" and showed the tortured and destroyed race rubber.

[fpv_gtho]

interesting stuff there then. waiting for the diff to click wouldve distracted him a fair bit though.

[SHAKER]

well if it did i didnt show in his race times, he had the fastest lap and pole on nearly every circuit with the gthos

[fpv_gtho]

he wouldve ended up getting used to it i'd say, it wouldve become part of his driving rhythm, plus the extra grip out of a corner couldve made up for any distraction