Favourite Ford ATCC driver

[fpv_gtho]

Who's your favourite Ford driver, based on overall performance, not just the most ATCC championships or the most Bathurst wins.

NB: I left Allan Moffat out as hes driven for Ford, Holden and Mazda

[SHAKER]

geoghan (sorry bout the spelling) is the only man to win a touring car championship for both holden and ford!

[fpv_gtho]

damn, another mistake on my behalf, well anyway my vote went to DJ. ive come to the conclusion that a true ford driver will win more titles than bathurst wins and the opposite is for holden drivers, for example, 9 time ATCC king of the mountain peter brock has won less championships than 5 time king of the mountain Dick Johnson. its also why i think Ingall is only in it for the money and lowndes got sick of ignoring himself

[SHAKER]

well ford did really shoot themselves in the foot...they were the cars to beat up until 1973 before the factory pulled out there factory support and left the drivers to develop and fund there own cars.......meanwhile holden had hdt homoligation bits and peices fitted to there cars where as ford didnt have any of those liberties.....it wasnt until 2000 or 2001 that ford officially started pouring money directly to a factory team........by then they were well and trully behind the 8 ball and it has taken them to just last year to fully recover.

[fpv_gtho]

well they mustn't have thought they wouldve been competitive enough if they couldnt race cars like the phase 4 on the track, but it wouldve changed the game as we know it if they had stuck in there. either way, ford is still ahead of holden for ATCC championships

[SHAKER]

well if i was working in ford pr and marketing id let everyone know about the atcc wins ford has over holden...and i would relate the new gts back to the older ones, people love seeing the older gts! Relating them to the new breed of gts could only get people more intersted in them.

[fpv_gtho]

FPV have done a little bit of relating the GT's of old to the new ones, but mainly with the new silver with orange stripes colour package, theyve shown a couple of pics of an old GT next to a new GT, both with that colour option

[Falcon500]

Well dj started off in commadres and bob jane is well known for his camaro hell even glenn seton the most experinced ford driver started in nissan same with jband the geohagens also had time in chryslers too. youll be stressed to find somone who wasin the same brand allthe way through even jim richards started in a ford XB.

[fpv_gtho]

you hardly ever hear about little things like that though, the media's more focused on the career highlights of them with their current manufacturer

[Falcon500]

Well i think Bo seton was ford all the way through im not too sure but his biggest highlight would of been his bathurst win in 65.

[fpv_gtho]

i remember seeing his name in the V8 supercar archives down towards the start in his capri. i think it was either 61 or 62 at the phillip island 500 that bob jane won in an XK falcon i think

[Falcon500]

It oprobly woukldof been in a lotus cortina becuase the only thing that the XK really could beat (in its class that is) was the HD holdens and stuff of the time which broke suspension compants and blew engines too. (the XK didnt have the tendancy to blow engines but still had the same suspesnion troubles)

[fpv_gtho]

well the last 2 times the 500 mile endurance race was held at phillip island, bob jane won in a cortina and a falcon, then he won the first 2 500 races at bathurst both in a cortina

[Falcon500]

Are you sure about the falcon because i rember they usually done very poorly in the Bathurst and phillip island races. I could be wrong though. Im fairly sure though it was all in cortinas he done it in.

[fpv_gtho]

im pretty sure about it, it more than liekly wouldve been an XL i'd say, but ill try and see if i can find anything proving it

[fpv_gtho]

i found something on the history of phillip island here: http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Australasia/phillipisland.html that says in 61 bob jan and harry firth won in a mercedes 220e and won the following year in a falcon, they didnt specify which one though, but being 62 it couldve been the XL

[Falcon500]

Well it seems perfectly historicly correct having the vauxhall win first and then the merc winning i dont quite rember gthe falcon winning of course people didnt reallystart paying too much attention to it untill 65 when they finallyrecognized the out right winner not just classes. its a realchallange to find much on racing here before 65.

[fpv_gtho]

well i dont think many people paid that much attention to falcons before 65 either, let alone their races. i think when ford drove one around you yangs for about 110,000km's straight to test their durability, then people started to like them

[SHAKER]

yes it was definatly a xl falcon that won the last 500 mile race at phillip island, in 1962...complete with the number plates XL500

[fpv_gtho]

i think it was only a soft dirt track which could explain why its suspension didnt suffer the same fate all the other production sub65 falcons suffered when pushed to their limits

[SHAKER]

no it was definalty a tarmac circuit.........but it was getting heavily damaged by the cars racing on it and thats why in 1963 they shut up shop and moved the race to bathurst and phillip island was shut for many years

[fpv_gtho]

it mustve been bathurst that was dirt then, i know one of them was. i remember during bathurst this year they were telling the story about how they couldnt get the equipment to phillip island to fix the track so the just moved the event, and then how they tricked the bathurst council into making the track and calling it a scenic route

[SHAKER]

yes bathurst was a dirt track originally, they raced there before ww2, then after the war they started gradually racing back there again.but i dont know when it became a "sealed" circuit.....possibly in 63...but i have a feeling that it was earlier than that

[fpv_gtho]

ive seen footage though of the likes of BMC mini's and cortinas racing around on dirt, powersliding out of forests elbow and down through the esses and such

[SHAKER]

hm well ive seen footage of old 1920s race cars racing on dirt, none of cortinas and minis on dirt though...they prob were power sliding....as they did back then but it still would of been a tarmac track..the first bathurst"500" would definatly been on a sealed track.

[fpv_gtho]

it could have been, i havent found anything official saying when it got tared, and until about the late 70's there were always cars sliding around the place o its always possible it was tarred before the 500 race got there

[SHAKER]

i know i heard of when it got tarred, but ive forgotten....i know the caltex chase was put in in 87 after the death of a commodore driver in 86,when he got airborn on conrod and his car hit the dunlop bridge.he was killed instantly.someone perished in 94....dont know what happened there though......in 86 crash the whole front end of the car was pushed into the cabin......what a way to die!

[fpv_gtho]

well its a way to get remembered. do you knwo what the maximum speed achieved would have been? if it was 86 then i dont think anyone had topped 290 yet. not that long ago someone died at phillip island, again in a commodore

[SHAKER]

who died in phillip island in a commy?.the last person that ive heard thats died was a racer in gt production in a vw beetle.i think it was at phillip island aswll.....Well if it had of been in the grp c days prob would of been doing over 260km/h, but it was in a grp A commy i think they were doing 240 250 max, which hitting an object like a solid cement bridge at even 60kmh would be tragic let alone 250 kmh

[fpv_gtho]

well it was something that came up when phillip island got kicked off the calender for this year. tony cochrane got all defensive saying stuff like "no, no, its not cause of the safety reasons of the track, its not cause someone in a production class killed themselves by slamming into a sand wall".....i think ol tony's going for the big bucks in overseas rounds, but at least one GP track is being replaced by another

[SHAKER]

yeah well theyre have been horrific smashes at phillip island, i wonder how good the recovery and emergency teams will be in china when they race there

[Falcon500]

A lot of drivers have died at bathurst the salesman i used to ahve at work said one time in the 70s the current F1 champions was qualifying and he just coasted to a halt...he died of a heart attack! hje wanst very old eithernearly 30. there have been a lot of deaths but a lot have been because of health reasons.
apprently i heard from an indian gentalman over the net India is building a f1 track too... ill be more worried about there.

[SHAKER]

well youd be talking about the great denny hulme, affectionally known as the "bear"...he drove for hrt in 1988 in a few rounds and in 1992 he teamed up with the b and h bmw team of tony longhurst, i think he was about 55 years of age, when he was coming down conrod the car just slowed and hit one side of the concrete wall and then hit the other side ever so gently, i remember watching the race then hours later mike raymond from the channel 7 commentary team announced his death on air during the race, and did confirm he died of a heart attack.That was a terrible thing to hear and it all happened so quick!

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well theyre have been horrific smashes at phillip island, i wonder how good the recovery and emergency teams will be in china when they race there

well they'll need to be good, the track's playing host to a round of the F1 grand prix and those things top 300km/h around corners

[fpv_gtho]

A lot of drivers have died at bathurst the salesman i used to ahve at work said one time in the 70s the current F1 champions was qualifying and he just coasted to a halt...he died of a heart attack! hje wanst very old eithernearly 30. there have been a lot of deaths but a lot have been because of health reasons.
apprently i heard from an indian gentalman over the net India is building a f1 track too... ill be more worried about there.


i think for any endurance race, unless your pretty fit, your gunna struggle. some years at bathurst its that bloody hot you dont want to know about it and some times its the complete opposite, some years you might get lucky and its a nice 26 degree day and others you may get a 4 seasons race. things like heatstroke come into play if you stay in too long, and im sure theres been a hell of a lot of drivers getting out of the cars almost getting poisoned from all of the carbon dioxod and monoxide from the exhausts

[SHAKER]

the formula ones havent raced there before have they?....these days with the air filtering systems they use its not as bad as it use to be, but spare a thought for the drivers in the 71 and 72 races, they drove them without any codrivers, thats a outstanding effort.

[fpv_gtho]

well the shanghai track is only being built because this year they want to have a round of the F1 there. i remember last year thye were showing lowndes hooked up to the O2 tanks because of the high amount of exhaust fumes he was breathing in, but it more than likely wouldve been because of the absence of a catalytic converter on the cars. in 72 and that i think it was an option to go single driver, but i know moffat and brock both had done it and won on seperate occasions, but then again the race was only 800km

[Falcon500]

Only 800 he says on unsupportive torana and flacon seats fromthe 70scomplete with nopower stearing and no air filatration of any kind. On a circut where you could still fall off the top of the mountain too.

[SHAKER]

man i dont know how they dont it on the vinyl seat and thin spoked steering wheel, i mean id get hot and bothered just cruising my old gt on a summer night, not to mention a sore leg from the heavy clutch. They were very brave and very silly at the same time!

[fpv_gtho]

lol alright guys i get the picture

[SHAKER]

oh theres a point to all this ?lol

[fpv_gtho]

well falc, although bathurst as a 2 person effort can be murder, moffat and brock chose to do it alone when they did

[Falcon500]

Moffat said the hardest thing about racing bathrust was not the race itself it was the wlets he had on his back for weeks afterwards.

[fpv_gtho]

aww thats disgusting, couldnt he have kept that to himself

[Falcon500]

Well he was aksed the hardest part and i guess that was it. their just huge blisters. like jeze have you never had blisters on your hands?

[fpv_gtho]

yeah ive had them, but theyre not the first thing you go sharing to people, like would you tell the whoel world everytime you had diarhoea?

[Falcon500]

no not really but also you can look at it as a historical thing the race was not only hard on car and driver but it was also hard weeks afterwards. (yeah they couldent lay down)

[fpv_gtho]

i guess it can be looked like that, but the whole package of the race was what made it so special to win. nowadays with the points systems and how relatively easier the cars are to drive i dont think its as special to win bathurst.

[SHAKER]

well i dont think driving a v8 supercar would ever be called"easy"...i heard mark oastler say that v8 supercar racing is now viewed as an extreme sport, due to the stresses and g forces and heat the drivers are exposed to throught a race meeting. You really have to be fit and healthy to race these 630 hp monsters!

[fpv_gtho]

well i did say relatively easier, at lest they can stay in the same spot driving around corners. most forms of racing need certain levels of endurance so its not as if V8 supercars stands out from the crowd

[SHAKER]

well its fair to say that all forms of circuit racing is a physical and mentally exhausting sport.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah apparently theres some fitness test you can take going on your breathing and such and nathan pretty got a reading that most tour de france riders would get. and to think steven johnson let himself go with his weight

[SHAKER]

cameron mconville was the fittest v8 supercar driver, he scored more than an afl footballer....

[fpv_gtho]

well thats too bad he cant turn that into success, maybe he will now that hes with GRM

[SHAKER]

well hopefully grm wont be to competitive weve got enough to worry about with hrt kmart and brock

[fpv_gtho]

yes well with SBR, FPR, DJR, 888 and you never know, maybe even SER, dont yuo think holden want to level up the playing field

[SHAKER]

well its only SBR that have the edge on the ex twr trio teams, and even then they struggled at bathurst and nz, where hrt are competitive at every track.

[fpv_gtho]

well its only been one year in the BA, and thats only for some. im sure seton will show some more potential in his yet and when lowndes gets a chance with the R8 engine things could happen

[SHAKER]

well ill believe that when i see it, the "factory" ford team have been promising results since theyre return to supercar racing in 2000, I hope im wrong. I dont think theyre prob was the engine, i thought it was more to do with understeering front end issues with the au and the ba.

[fpv_gtho]

well FPR have had to spend 2003 establishing themselves as a team and building 3 new cars so 2004 they'll have alot more time on their hands

[Falcon500]

Well i once heard glenn seton say that owning a 2 car team is three times the work(2001 when he had 2 cars with tickford livery) so think what three cars would do to you! And are you honestly worriedabout team brock? there a top 10 team now their not likely to be a threat they are so damn behind their cars wenrt even hybreds this year! they are dieing development wise. And FPV are expected to make promises even if they cant keep them they cant really say oh we intend on finishing the race hopefully with 2 cars some where in the top 10 now can they?

[SHAKER]

well yes team brock did well in the last round if my memories thinking of the right race...and they had a ban on testing almost all year....so i wouldnt write them off just yet.they did lead the championship for a long time last year

[fpv_gtho]

well i'd say FPR is relatively easy to run compared to other 2 car teams, being under control by prodrive and David Flint. they should be in a position to win more than 1 round this year i would say though, despite lowndes gettin 2nd on 3 occasions this year, all at NSW rounds

[fpv_gtho]

well yes team brock did well in the last round if my memories thinking of the right race...and they had a ban on testing almost all year....so i wouldnt write them off just yet.they did lead the championship for a long time last year


that was mainly because of the points system rewarding consistency, bright was leading without a win remember

[Falcon500]

Yeah and they done good for one round there a top10 team now and unless they get some serious money would be lucky to stay there especially with betta electrical pulling their sponsorship.

[fpv_gtho]

the teams looking closer and closer to going down the route of 00 motorsport: taking one of HRT's drivers then after the first year have the funding go away

[SHAKER]

yes well the points system is the same for everyone, but i didnt know betta eletrical were pulling out tho

[fpv_gtho]

well the results bright was getting were putting him in first in the chamionship, where even skaife results made him deserve to be first

[SHAKER]

yeah but youd expect skaife to be up there, hes a champion driver in a top 2 team

[Falcon500]

Id stillcallthem the top team they havemore funding and have won for like 5 years straight. Just because the stones won dosent mean their the best (not saying they arnt though its just my opionion) they wont hrough peserverence years of trialand error and having a top bloody driver.

[fpv_gtho]

well have a look at the performance of HRT's pit crew compared to SBR's and SBR are clearly better in theyre approach. there were countless times when HRT made stupid mistakes

[Falcon500]

Yeah and look at the stones and 00 the year before.
Oh and on the note about gibson motorsport in 2001 thats the team that lowndes joined up with andlater became 00.

[fpv_gtho]

HRT though theyre stuffing up too much to still be considered the best team

[Falcon500]

Well the way i see it skaife wanted some praise out of a bad situation so he admits the stones are stronger this year then them. Best out of a bad situation.

[fpv_gtho]

thats just admitting defeat though, perhaps HRT are still in a slump after the owndership scandal

[SHAKER]

well its fair to say hrt have been the best team over the last 5 years, but SBR was the best team last year.....but id like to see both there budgets for the year..im sure hrt have spent millions more and have had access to more resources over the last 5 years. aT ONE STAGE HRT SPENT MORE ON THERE TEAM THAN ALL THE FORD TEAMS PUT TOGETHER. oops sorry about the caps

[fpv_gtho]

well until 2003, they easily shoudve been the best engineering wise because of TWR, but now with 888 and prodrive on fords side and TWR folding, the tables have turned, yet SBR are still fighting it out with the only other help possibly from DJR

[SHAKER]

yes well prodrive had had a lot of success o/s, but can they tame the fpv falcons and make them as competitive as SBR? speaking of which ford should use lowndes and ambrose more in there marketing..perhaps get them to a special signature series gt falcon or something....whynot hlden do it with there drivers.

[fpv_gtho]

well a couple of years back ambrose and lowndes used to do the special edition ford ute adds where they were driving around in teh AU3 marlin and tradesman utes around a test track, probably you yangs saying over the radio braggin to each other about all the freee stuff. lowndes now does the autobahn adds and ambrose has done a couple of KFC adds but its not really enough. i highly doubt ford using ambrose or his name on a special edition XR8 or something, lowndes would be better suited for it but ford could get away with a special edition XR8 to celebrate the win and have ambrose sign it or something.

[SHAKER]

yes i remember those adds, but i havent seen any kfc adds with ambrose in them?...whats the add for just kfc.or ford aswell?

[fpv_gtho]

its mainly just a KFC add but it puts in the rivalry between skaife and ambrose, it doesnt directly do anything for ford or holden

[Falcon500]

Well its just like KFCs lame cricket add they are just pissing off their product to whats currently in the lime light usually sport when the footy starts up youll find theyll have footy buckets and stuff like that.
Them singature cars are really quite lame most of them being nothing other then a signature and sometimes custom interiorhelllarry perkins signature cars were normal SSs. I thinkits a cheasy idea really unless they do somthing specail with the cars....youll find there are a lotmore ford add using v8 drivers like localy wehave addwith John bower and marcos amerbrose talking about John McGrath ford as well as lowndes in autbarn and stuff. And the ozimale team really are getting a lot of exposure a littlewghile ago before i was working i was whatching cheez TV (mornming cartoon show...love my toons :D well not the jap ones not only do they make shit cars but bad telly too j/k) and they were getting interviewd by them and took them for hot laps and told the kiddies what their cars do and how fast etc etc.

[fpv_gtho]

not to mentioni their lightning fast internet adds where JB and BJ are doing the autographs and they write dwon something like ozemail's phone number on some kids hat, or it could be the cost of broadband, something like that. i wanna see ambrose and lowndes back in the falcon ute adds though, i mean ford were selling the marlin, SE and tradesman utes for the BA, but perhaps that new rule on advertising cars is stipping them doing it how they want, it sure ruined the XR8 ute add

[Falcon500]

Well there wasnt anything wrong about the BAutes add it was a little stupid but so was the first one "must be stuck in third"

[fpv_gtho]

well it was all in an attempt to get attention to the AU utes, which obviously worked as the utes were the only ones that didnt come out battered and bruised as a result of the AU. that new law though has really ruined car advertising

[Falcon500]

Well them adds were banned because some very unintelligent people who go out and buy these cars (hell go on yahoo chat some people are so stuck in their strange little world they cant give any any credit what so ever itsreally quite sad) and think ahh i saw it do burnouts on telly and so on and so forth.

[fpv_gtho]

they should come up with some driving aptitude test that prevents these types of people getting behind the wheel of a car,

[SHAKER]

Well to be fair to the younger drivers, they are exposed to more motor sports and wreckless advertising than they ever were 20 or 30 years ago, and cars are a lot more powerfull than ever before....(you floor a standard 3.8 litre commodore compared to 3.3 hq holden and tell me otherwise!). people have been doing burnouts since the 1950s its only that theres a lot more people driving these days and cars dont really have to be modified as much as in the old days to make them do burnouts, so ofcourse its gonna get outacontrol...The road toll was at its worse in 1970, i think its a lot better these days and as i said before theres a lot more people driving.Having said that there are heaps of wreckless teenage hoons that dont care about anything or anyone though, thats the people that should be targeted and kept off the streets.

[SHAKER]

its mainly just a KFC add but it puts in the rivalry between skaife and ambrose, it doesnt directly do anything for ford or holden
could you tell me what happens in the ad.im baffled as why we dont get it here in SA......

[Falcon500]

Ambrose cuts skaife off in a kfc drive trhough this was done with comentry and they are then eating kfc and laugh that is really all that it is. Welli thinkmakeing driving very ubnatracctive would be ananswer make it compulsury that you can change a tyer that you can do simplemaintince and cheaks on the car! also make other forms of transport more atracctive so itll keep morepeopleoff the roads. And hell if worse comes to worse morespeed cameras because lets face it they may be a pain in the ass but they really can catch the people who need to be caught make them donate to the state and somtimes even loose their liscence. If they can make it seem lessattractyive itll haveless people on the road. less people on the road=less pollutuion/easier driving and less road wear.

[SHAKER]

yes theres some valid points there....i wonder how many people have lost there license by getting caught by speed cameras and red light cameras, do they have any statistics on this issue?

[Falcon500]

I think its sually a handfull of points lost at one time unless you are doing 30 km/h over the limit. Most people only really loos their liscences because of actual police confrentation from the way i see it.

[fpv_gtho]

wateva they do it needs to be better than what theyre doing know. im sure if the multi millions they get from speed cameras every year went into improving the roads, especially the rural ones no one would care all too much if they got caught by one. doing things like ensureing people know basic car maintenance sounds liek a good idea, but i cant see it getting passed, especially if you look at the fact you have to get an authorised plumber in to change the washers in your taps in you house now.

[Falcon500]

Well what we need more then anything is more cop and hell prehaps even stricter laws maybey itll be the only way. Welltheyll focus on caberra (i dont speed there as it isi dont know where i can get away with it) and theyll more then likly leave my little home alone.

[fpv_gtho]

well more cops wouldnt hurt, but theyre making them redundant with things like red light cameras and speed camera's, things that make money rather than take it

[Falcon500]

Well cameras arnt a solution their a band aid they still cant do allthe theings a cop can.

[fpv_gtho]

well more often than not cameras are the causes of some accidents. did you hear about the council in some areas having to remove some speed traps and speed humps because of how much they increased emergency service response times? ive heard reports that some firetrucks to get over particular speed humps safely had to go over them at about 5-10km/h, theyre also considering removing the round abouts with a raised island because of the damage being done to some fire trucks suspension when they try and drive through the middle of them

[Falcon500]

and its a fair cop too if it helps make the place safer.

[fpv_gtho]

well the governments presented with the problem of limiting urban speeding. theyve got the problem of kids always running onto the roads, but theyve got to make it easy for the emergency services. speed humps have proven to be a nuisance, same with the raised centre roundabouts. if people could be trusted to use responsibility going through urban areas than the government wouldnt have to worry too much about implementing these things. id like to see some statistics though of pedestrians getting hit in urban areas to see whether theres a problem needing fixing to start with actually

[SHAKER]

wateva they do it needs to be better than what theyre doing know. im sure if the multi millions they get from speed cameras every year went into improving the roads, especially the rural ones no one would care all too much if they got caught by one. doing things like ensureing people know basic car maintenance sounds liek a good idea, but i cant see it getting passed, especially if you look at the fact you have to get an authorised plumber in to change the washers in your taps in you house now.
since when do you need a licsened plumber to change the washers in your taps?.thats absolutley ludicrous......it must only be in nsw

[fpv_gtho]

one of my mums friends whos a janitor at a public school told my mum, i knows crazy

[SHAKER]

yes the issue of large speed humps and so fourth in side streets has been raging for years, they do save lives in some cases then do the opposite when emergency services get hampered by them

[fpv_gtho]

well the different people you talk to the different opinions you get given on road safety and such. for instance, the australian government backs up its maximum 110km/h speed limit based on their studies have found speeding to be a cause of something like 40% of crashes. well i think its italy who just raised the limit from 130km/h to 150km/h after a new stury found only 9% of accidents were a result of crashes. its not that the italians are better drivers, the australian government includes unneccesary variables in the tests such as fatique. then they go blame speeding cause someone was sleepy