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KarateBoy
01-05-2004, 09:46 PM
im some what new to this forum so i don't know if, this has been asked before or not and if i can post it here but what is the top speed of a BMW M5. I do realize that its 250km/hour which is roughly 160m/hour. These speed are the electronically controlled, what would be top top speed, if someone for example went to China-town and got it taken off.

Also what is the difference between a supercharger and twin turbo?, can you have both? which is better?

I have read that an M5 with a supercharger has 650+ hp, what would its 0-60 acceleration be then?

what would be some thing you can do to increase the top speed/ acceleration?

Thanks in advance and apoligizes if i did something stupid

Egg Nog
01-05-2004, 11:26 PM
Okay, I'll try to make this brief, and to make it as simple as I can possibly stand.....by the way, there's never a stupid technical question when you're new to this sort of thing. Your questions were just fine. :)

1. With the limiter removed, I've heard that the E39 M5 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=54) (I think you're talking about this one.) could potentially reach speeds of around 180mph, or 290km/h. That is what I can recall from memory. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

2. I will make this as simple as possible. For the sake of simpifying the explanation, twin turbo just means it uses two turbochargers.

Superchargers and turbochargers are both methods of forcing more air and fuel into the combustion chambers of the engine. They are different in the ways that they are driven.

-Superchargers are "turbines" powered by a belt connected to the engine.
-Turbochargers are "turbines" spun by rapidly-moving exhaust gases.

Superchargers, because they are powered from the engine directly, are immediately effective at increasing power. Because of the direct connection to the engine, they take a certain amount of power away. This is, of course, countered by the power that they produce, but it is inherently less efficient.

Turbochargers are more efficient because they are powered through the exhaust gases, which would otherwise be wasted. Technically speaking, they could potentially produce more power than a supercharged engine could because there is no direct loss. The disadvantage here is that turbochargers suffer "lag", or the period where the exhaust doesn't yet have enough pressure to cause the "turbines" to produce a decent power boost to the engine. In higher RPMs, turbochargers reach their optimum running conditions.

3. It is impossible to say what it would be exactly, depending on the gearing, etc. but if eveything else on the car remained the same, I would estimate that the 0-60 time would decrease from 5.2 to around 4.5 seconds. That's not bad for a car that weighs 1700+ kg. ;)

4.
Increase horsepower
Increase torque
Improve aerodynamics
Change gear ratios (Shorter gears = better acceleration, longer gears = higher top speed)
Reduce the weight of the car (As everyone who knows me is sure I will tell you, this is the best method. As well as improving straight-line performance, it will make the car more efficient as well as improve every other aspect of performance. All that you might lose are some wussy luxuries :))

Hope this helps you a bit, and that someone appreciates the 35 or so minutes I spent writing this post ;)

-Shawn

P.S.: (In case NoOne reads this) :D Pff...luxuries :) All I need is a heater and some speakers... gimme my damn crank-windows :)

NoOne
01-06-2004, 12:59 AM
very nice explanation Egg Nog




Change gear ratios (Shorter gears = better acceleration, longer gears = higher top speed)
:)

Very good explanation, I would just like to clarify gear ratios,
SHORTER GEARS are higher numerically - as in 4.11:1
LONGER GEARS or commonly known as TALLER GEARS are lower numerically - as in 2.76:1
Both of these refer to Final Drive ratios.

BTW:


P.S.: (In case NoOne reads this) :D Pff...luxuries :) All I need is a heater and some speakers... gimme my damn crank-windows :)

LMFAO :D
I've had many sets of crank windows, even ones where you had to help and lift the glass with your fingertips. :D .
People can get lazy when they get older ....I'm proof ;)

KarateBoy
01-06-2004, 04:46 PM
Okay, I'll try to make this brief, and to make it as simple as I can possibly stand.....by the way, there's never a stupid technical question when you're new to this sort of thing. Your questions were just fine. :)

1. With the limiter removed, I've heard that the E39 M5 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=54) (I think you're talking about this one.) could potentially reach speeds of around 180mph, or 290km/h. That is what I can recall from memory. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

2. I will make this as simple as possible. For the sake of simpifying the explanation, twin turbo just means it uses two turbochargers.

Superchargers and turbochargers are both methods of forcing more air and fuel into the combustion chambers of the engine. They are different in the ways that they are driven.

-Superchargers are "turbines" powered by a belt connected to the engine.
-Turbochargers are "turbines" spun by rapidly-moving exhaust gases.

Superchargers, because they are powered from the engine directly, are immediately effective at increasing power. Because of the direct connection to the engine, they take a certain amount of power away. This is, of course, countered by the power that they produce, but it is inherently less efficient.

Turbochargers are more efficient because they are powered through the exhaust gases, which would otherwise be wasted. Technically speaking, they could potentially produce more power than a supercharged engine could because there is no direct loss. The disadvantage here is that turbochargers suffer "lag", or the period where the exhaust doesn't yet have enough pressure to cause the "turbines" to produce a decent power boost to the engine. In higher RPMs, turbochargers reach their optimum running conditions.

3. It is impossible to say what it would be exactly, depending on the gearing, etc. but if eveything else on the car remained the same, I would estimate that the 0-60 time would decrease from 5.2 to around 4.5 seconds. That's not bad for a car that weighs 1700+ kg. ;)

4.
Increase horsepower
Increase torque
Improve aerodynamics
Change gear ratios (Shorter gears = better acceleration, longer gears = higher top speed)
Reduce the weight of the car (As everyone who knows me is sure I will tell you, this is the best method. As well as improving straight-line performance, it will make the car more efficient as well as improve every other aspect of performance. All that you might lose are some wussy luxuries :))

Hope this helps you a bit, and that someone appreciates the 35 or so minutes I spent writing this post ;)

-Shawn

P.S.: (In case NoOne reads this) :D Pff...luxuries :) All I need is a heater and some speakers... gimme my damn crank-windows :)



I thank you once again and i appreciate the time you spent helping me out. Is there a guide for choosing a supercharger or twin turbos? Maybe if its a bigger car.... Well all i have to do know is get my liscense save up for an M5 (o yea, i have no job, no allowance almost no income- might take a while) and get all the performace parts available. Also get the M5 down to 1500 kg and i'll have great top speeds with maybe a 0-60 acceleration of 4.2 maybe less-thanks again

Alfahollic
01-07-2004, 04:21 AM
I thank you once again and i appreciate the time you spent helping me out. Is there a guide for choosing a supercharger or twin turbos? Maybe if its a bigger car.... Well all i have to do know is get my liscense save up for an M5 (o yea, i have no job, no allowance almost no income- might take a while) and get all the performace parts available. Also get the M5 down to 1500 kg and i'll have great top speeds with maybe a 0-60 acceleration of 4.2 maybe less-thanks again

Dear KarateBoy I know your heart is set on the M5 why dont you look for a cheaper vehicle that is much lighter and modify that engine, youll get much better performance results probably cheaper. Im after a Alfa 75 3.0 V6, stuff it with NOS first, then give it 3.5l pistons then add a twin turbo configuration, 500RWHP in a 1200kg car (lightened) yay. But you look to be a BMW guro so maybe go for somthing a little cheaper, im not to knowledgeable with BMW's but im thiking there'd be a cheaper model to buy and tweak the engine :p.

You do not have to have a twin turbo set up u can run just a large single turbo instead of two smaller ones, however i believe you get more turbo-lag.

You can also have an engine set up which is very effective as you asked with both a supercharger and turbocharger. Im refering to the "Lancia Delta S4" http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=249 The advantages of this configuration are that you cancel out any turbo-lag in low rpm. Hence the supercharger works in low rpm say below 3,000rpm (im not sure) and after 3,000rpm the turbo kicks in which delivers a higher amount of power in the higher rev range. That all came out a bit messy but i think you get the drift.

Hugh.

KarateBoy
01-07-2004, 07:23 PM
Dear KarateBoy I know your heart is set on the M5 why dont you look for a cheaper vehicle that is much lighter and modify that engine, youll get much better performance results probably cheaper. Im after a Alfa 75 3.0 V6, stuff it with NOS first, then give it 3.5l pistons then add a twin turbo configuration, 500RWHP in a 1200kg car (lightened) yay. But you look to be a BMW guro so maybe go for somthing a little cheaper, im not to knowledgeable with BMW's but im thiking there'd be a cheaper model to buy and tweak the engine :p.

You do not have to have a twin turbo set up u can run just a large single turbo instead of two smaller ones, however i believe you get more turbo-lag.

You can also have an engine set up which is very effective as you asked with both a supercharger and turbocharger. Im refering to the "Lancia Delta S4" http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=249 The advantages of this configuration are that you cancel out any turbo-lag in low rpm. Hence the supercharger works in low rpm say below 3,000rpm (im not sure) and after 3,000rpm the turbo kicks in which delivers a higher amount of power in the higher rev range. That all came out a bit messy but i think you get the drift.

Hugh.


Thats a good idea and i never knew you can hook up a super charger and twin turbo. When i asked my friend about this he made a joke about how "it will kick ass or blow your piston rings off" but anyway thanks a lot and i'll consider it. Maybe the M3 might be better for racing/ speed and performace upgrades. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=854 i also believe that the new one has faster accleration already- possibly 1.4 sec on 0-60 and if i lighten it up a bit. Do both a supercharger and twin turbo get a few more performace parts (i heard there's a "chip" that helps control the gas mixture coming in) and so forth. maybe i can get it up to 600+ hp and under 4.0 sec 0-60. Tell me if any one thinks this is possible or an i just blowing smoke out of my butt. thanks again all

Egg Nog
01-07-2004, 08:29 PM
Thats a good idea and i never knew you can hook up a super charger and twin turbo. When i asked my friend about this he made a joke about how "it will kick ass or blow your piston rings off" but anyway thanks a lot and i'll consider it. Maybe the M3 might be better for racing/ speed and performace upgrades. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=854 i also believe that the new one has faster accleration already- possibly 1.4 sec on 0-60 and if i lighten it up a bit. Do both a supercharger and twin turbo get a few more performace parts (i heard there's a "chip" that helps control the gas mixture coming in) and so forth. maybe i can get it up to 600+ hp and under 4.0 sec 0-60. Tell me if any one thinks this is possible or an i just blowing smoke out of my butt. thanks again all

When I got my liscence, I was very happy that I already had a car to drive around. That's the real benefit of having one; so that you can use it.

Dreaming of a Bimmer that will haul ass is great, but it'll probably work out better for you to get a cheap and fairly fast car to begin with, like an '88 VW GTI or something. That way, you won't go without transportation for the 5+ years it will take you to save up for an "M" car, plus you get to be a better driver by ripping around in a fun little car to begin with. You'll be a way better driver, and know your limits on the road much better. And of course, you'll have a way to get around :)

KarateBoy
01-07-2004, 09:06 PM
When I got my liscence, I was very happy that I already had a car to drive around. That's the real benefit of having one; so that you can use it.

Dreaming of a Bimmer that will haul ass is great, but it'll probably work out better for you to get a cheap and fairly fast car to begin with, like an '88 VW GTI or something. That way, you won't go without transportation for the 5+ years it will take you to save up for an "M" car, plus you get to be a better driver by ripping around in a fun little car to begin with. You'll be a way better driver, and know your limits on the road much better. And of course, you'll have a way to get around :)

Well of course, that "M' car is more of a dream car then a first option- my dad has been telling me that it might get a car after i get my liscense we haven't talk about what car other can it possiblt being manual (which i want) anf that *jokingly i hope* my budget for the car is around 300 dollars. 300 dollars exactly isn't enough for an "M" car. But thanks and i'll think about the '88 VW although i don't know if its in my budget <.< I can wait for my dream. But what do you think of it... i mean how beastly do you think i can get the M3 up to, it being significantly lighter then the M5 and assuming that the one i would buy one day already has 350 hp and a 0-60 in 4.8. I want to hear what you guys have to say. The words of experts must enlighten me.

Egg Nog
01-07-2004, 09:44 PM
I want to hear what you guys have to say. The words of experts must enlighten me.

By the way, it doesn't need to be an '88 GTI, I was just suggesting that it should be something in that price range. :)

Since the new Lotus Elise came out, that's all I've ever wanted, and I've promised myself that I will have an S2 Elise eventually. I sure know, however, that this won't happen anytime soon, not even in a decade. I'm focousing in my 914 right now, which was in my price range. I'm happy with it, I've been learning tons from it, and its treating me well.

Anyway, I'll say that you are nowhere near the point where you will be buying an "M" car/extreme tuning parts/thousands in labour and/or years of mechanical school to learn how :) It's a definate possibility that you can get one eventually, but I think you should start thinking about that in a long time. For now, I think you should find another "pet" car thats more like a couple of thousand, and then work toward it. I'm sure by the time you've got enough money for a cheap yet fun starter car, it'll last you a while as it becomes your baby :) You'll see :)

DiabloGTR
01-07-2004, 09:50 PM
300 dollars exactly isn't enough for an "M" car. But thanks and i'll

An M3 costs over $50,000 USD, the M5 goes for about $70,000 USD! Every young man thinks about these dream cars, such as Bimmers, Benz, Ferrari and what not, but you should give yourself a reality check first. Average house-hold income in the United States is $35,000 US. I assume you live in the US.
You also have to think about insurance rates, an expensive car like Bimmer driven by a teen is going to give you very high insurance bills.
Like everyone has already pointed out, you should get a cheaper car first and learn to drive it in the real world.
The internet is the biggest tool you have, maybee you can look for a fast but inexpensive car on one of the many used car sites that are out there.
There are some companies that tune BMWs, such as AC Schnitzer, but it costs a lot of money. ;)

KarateBoy
01-07-2004, 09:58 PM
300 dollars exactly isn't enough for an "M" car. But thanks and i'll

An M3 costs over $50,000 USD, the M5 goes for about $70,000 USD! Every young man thinks about these dream cars, such as Bimmers, Benz, Ferrari and what not, but you should give yourself a reality check first. Average house-hold income in the United States is $35,000 US. I assume you live in the US.
You also have to think about insurance rates, an expensive car like Bimmer driven by a teen is going to give you very high insurance bills.
Like everyone has already pointed out, you should get a cheaper car first and learn to drive it in the real world.
The internet is the biggest tool you have, maybee you can look for a fast but inexpensive car on one of the many used car sites that are out there.
There are some companies that tune BMWs, such as AC Schnitzer, but it costs a lot of money. ;)

more wise words for a car genius