Gorman: Adventra no threat

[fpv_gtho]

http://goauto.carsales.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/5B9F942C91F2716CCA256FAF0015D29B

Adventra no rival

Towering: Ford's boss Tom Gorman believes Territory will stand tall against the new Adventra V6.

Ford Australia boss shrugs off Holden’s hopes to rival Territory with its new Adventra V6

By MARTON PETTENDY 21 February 2005


THOSE that expected Ford to be quaking in its corporate boots following the launch of Holden’s Adventra V6 to rival the Blue Oval’s segment-leading Territory will this week be sorely disappointed.

“I’m not firing people because of the fact they are going to have a V6,” said Ford Australia president Tom Gorman in response to the launch of Holden’s first serious medium SUV entrant, which goes on sale in April.

“I would say that it’s a very different vehicle from the Territory. The consumer may decide it’s a vehicle that fits their needs. (But) I don’t think so – to me the Territory offers a lot for the consumer and is great value for the money, and the consumers recognise that. It has a whole set of product attributes that are quite different.”

Mr Gorman said Territory’s stellar 2004 sales record was vindication for the $500 million it invested to develop Territory, which he claimed had helped increase the company’s market share while Holden’s fell.

“We chose to invest our resources by committing finances into a product called Territory, which has been extremely successful,” he said.



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“If I were them (Holden), I’d under-promise and over-deliver. One of the differences (is) you now know what the competitor looks like." Tom Gorman.
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“They’ve chosen to invest their resources elsewhere, selling some small specialty vehicles. They have clearly made an investment in commercial vehicles, and they’ve launched Adventra. Our market share has gone up in the past two years, Holden’s has gone backwards in the last two years.”

Mr Gorman said he was not surprised Holden had issued a conservative sales forecast of just 4500 Adventras in 2005 – 80 per cent of which are expected to be V6 models. The company sold just 2500 VYII Adventra V8s in 2004, well short of its 4800 sales estimate despite a $4000 price drop just months after launch.

“If I were them, I’d under-promise and over-deliver,” he said. “One of the differences (is) you now know what the competitor looks like.

“Before, when they were forecasting, they had no idea what Territory was and they probably didn’t believe what we were saying. And now the market has voted pretty positively in favour of Territory so you’d have to get a sense of ‘now the vehicle’s out there, we know what we’re up against’.

“Today, based on what they have, I think they sold 84 last month. I don’t think it’s a big issue at the moment. They might hit the market in a sweet spot, they might present themselves better, they might incentivise the deals in a big way – who knows? We’ll react to a certain degree, but I’m not firing people because of the fact they are going to have a V6.

“They’ve got a different business model. They’ve really expanded their exports and maybe that’s what they’re focused on. And maybe that’s how they measure themselves. But we’ve got a formidable competitor and they’re not doing this for practice.”

While Mr Gorman admitted Territory has had “clear sailing” in the medium SUV segment over the past six months, he said competition would heat up in 2005, especially from former segment leader Toyota. Holden is also expected launch an all-new medium SUV here in 2006.

“This is going to be an interesting year because a lot of guys are going to come after us,” he said.

“We do stick out as having been incredibly successful since the launch of this vehicle. They’re going to come after us: some with products, some with aggressive pricing and some with marketing.

“I think Toyota has a history of being a very aggressive marketer here in Australia.”

To counter this in the longer term, a number of Territory derivatives are known to be in the pipeline, but Mr Gorman refused to be drawn on which will appear first and when.

“We have other Territory developments we’re working on at the moment that we’re not in a position to talk about,” said Mr Gorman, who confirmed off-road, diesel and performance versions were the most asked-about future Territory models.

[SlickHolden]

A bit cocky isnt he:p

[fpv_gtho]

Depends how you look at it, Holden probably thought they'd steal some of Fords thunder with the V6 whilst they themselves always said they were 2 completely different cars.

[Blue Supra]

and hes right they are two completely differnt cars. an SUV(CK) and a AWD wagon is not the same thing. personally i will never ever drive/own an SUV and i wont ever really need/want an AWD wagon so basically i dont know what to think here:confused:

[fpv_gtho]

Dont have kids, thats what :p Afterall its the families jumping into them.

[Blue Supra]

not planning to for quite some time mate:)

[fpv_gtho]

Well you dont have to plan for it to happen :p

[Blue Supra]

this is true...:o

always use protection;)

[SlickHolden]

Or chop it if you don't want kids like some of the one's i have seen:p

[Blue Supra]

ill get the snip after 3...;)

[SlickHolden]

They reverse to:D

[Blue Supra]

yeh well i dont think id want more then 3... id have to get a van:(

[SlickHolden]

My mind is set on none, I have seen to many little turky's running around:p

[Blue Supra]

lol, my niece is just one kid but shes pretty tiring. not so much anymore now though she started school:D now whos tired little girl???;)

[fpv_gtho]

Or chop it if you don't want kids like some of the one's i have seen:p

Thats going a few steps too far isnt it :p

[crisis]

Its not hard to outsell the Adventra on SUV grounds when it is nothing more than a 4x4 jacked up Commodore wagon. Anyway this market is a joke.

[Blue Supra]

Anyway this market is a joke.

strongly agreed,

BTW you planning on selling the SV8 anytime soon?

[crisis]

strongly agreed,

BTW you planning on selling the SV8 anytime soon?
Cant afford the next one yet. My theory is to wait for the next model with the LS2.

[Blue Supra]

VE? ok. in the market for a new car atm is all:)

[crisis]

VE? ok. in the market for a new car atm is all:)
Mines been thrashed. :D

[Blue Supra]

sell it to me cheap then... whats it worth to you? VX isnt it?

[crisis]

sell it to me cheap then... whats it worth to you? VX isnt it?
VY, I still love it too much.

[Blue Supra]

hah fair enough, VY is probably outside my price range anyways.:)

[fpv_gtho]

Somehow i dont think the VE will have the LS2, at least not the 2006 VE. Maybe the VE2 or whatever they release in 2008.

[SlickHolden]

I think HSV is just waiting for FPV to get over 300kw before they go to the 6.2lt in the GTS. I think they will need atleast 315kw for VE. With extra weight. HSV doesn't like there models to get slower from the one's before.
Maybe the Monaro might trial the 6.0Lt 275kw ? For VE 06. If they can back it off enough. And the SS SV8 get's 260kw VZ Monaro.?

[fpv_gtho]

The GTS-R had ~330kw, so the Clubsport might get that (or maybe just 320kw), either way im not expecting more than 350kw from the GTS.

FPV are holding back a while though, theyre making sure before they stretch the engine out further the diff and transmission can handle it, and especially that the chassis and suspension can provide a great handling package for an 1800-1900kg car. Should be interesting to see if Ford capitilizes on both Holden saying AWD doesnt look likely for VE and that they'll be carrying a heavy weight penalty. With the different front end in the Territory and the high chance that'll find itself under the 2008 Falcon, we could see AWD Falcons with only 50-80kg over the RWD ones rather than Holden capitilizing on their broad development on AWD when Ford stuck it all in the Territory

[Blitz_]

hmm import another v8 engine to tackle the 6L LS2 perhaps??

[2ndclasscitizen]

the power levels to come from hsv will pan out better if the s/c models actually happen. plus the ls2 is still pretty new and hsv is one of what three companies to use it within GM so there's a proabably a lot of experimentation going on to see what can be done to the motor

[SlickHolden]

A good thing could be a LS2 305kw Clubsport and maloo. Rest of the range go 315kw.
GTS 330kw.. then Holden might sneak the LS2 in they should no abit about it now with the GTO and HSV useing it. I don't think the VTII LS1 days will be back with this engine they havent rushed this time.

Holden might need a single exhaust on the LS2 to hold some power back?

Doesn't the XR8 have single exhasut ? If so there could be a good thing a twin exhaust system a little extra power 270-275kw :)

[2ndclasscitizen]

the VZ LS2 HSVs are the only HSVs ever to not have extractors. i don't think HSV will put different power levels from clubbie/mallo to R8, i think they just want to keep them different in options

[fpv_gtho]

hmm import another v8 engine to tackle the 6L LS2 perhaps??

Like......what?

The 5.4's not a bad engine. The long stroke stops high revs and the small bore limits valve size, but its still got a fairly tame exhaust and cam setup, and despite the piston velocity, 500rpm on the current internals isnt that much of a stretch and 1000-2000rpm with high strength bits is very much possible. Ford just need to get off their lazy arse and develop it further and as much as i dont want to see a VE GTS with the LS7 and the VE SS with the LS2, it might just be the kick in the balls Ford and FPV need

[SlickHolden]

I agree if Holden have 40kw++ extra and ford don't match it it's only going to kill both cause there wont be a rivalry so not many will give a crap then.
It was hard when holden had 220kw and ford 200kw or was it 185?

One of the best things that happend was BA 260-290 kw V8's Made Holden and HSV wake up from (02) 235kw to (04) 250kw(ss) 260kw(monaro).
And HSV (02) 260kw base to (04) 297kw Base. And remove the GTS.
As KOS said maybe it's a wakeup ford needs like holden got in 02

[Blue Supra]

Kick em all in the nuts. end of sentence:D

[SlickHolden]

What's you price range on a car mate. Cause i have seen some cheap Gen3's around.
One of the cheapest was VX berlina $19.000. Some cheap VTII SS also.

[Blue Supra]

prolly around 19 - 21k

ive been considering a Non Turbo 93 - 94 Supra for around 18 - 19k in manual as well.

[SlickHolden]

So your after turbo supra or non turbo supra and gen3 holden. Any fords ?
I'm always looking around at cars:D

[Blue Supra]

well the TT Supra is a good 12k+ more then the NA one. thats a but much to loan for me at the moment. 19 - 21k is a decent sized car loan i think, anymore and the interest will devour my pay cheque:(

[SlickHolden]

Just missed your price with this one:(
http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!holden_certified.display_vehicle?dweb_id=&vehicle_id=2139690&instant_flag=&service_id=71&total_rec=141&current_rec=1&multi_flag=0&order_by=price+%3Asort_order&sort_type=ASC&special_id=&holden_range_id=5&holden_model_id=38&search_distance=50

[Blue Supra]

wouldnt buy it anyway. gotta be 6 speed manual mate;):)

[SlickHolden]

Gotta couple of supra's here nice to:D
http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/toyota/supra/melbourne/detail.aspx?id=1552138&pg=1&pp=0&d=0&nv=1
Turbo one... http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/toyota/supra/sydney/detail.aspx?id=1948651&pg=1&pp=11&d=0&nv=1

[Blue Supra]

saw them the other day. they seem like good buys but youd never know until you got them thoroughly checked over. i was looking on friday and i found one still for sale that was advertised mid last year. im like WTF is wrong with it:D

[SlickHolden]

lol that's the first thing that goes through my head:D

Last week i seen this 20k Brand new 2003 VY Senator $45,000 i think. Was thinking what was wrong with that and how come they didnt sell it in 2003 ?

[Blue Supra]

without the wing thisd be alright -9k:p

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedCarID=700064&TabID=3328&Alias=carpointau

this'd be awesome, never seen an actual yellow one before

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedCarID=699334&TabID=3328&Alias=carpointau

this is the kindof thing i can afford

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedCarID=670337&TabID=3328&Alias=carpointau

[SlickHolden]

If it had Turbo that wing would be perfect:D
The car looks ok maybe change rims only Nice NFSU sound system :D It's racer like.


Second one is cheap but it doesn't have the good looks of the first one;(

[SlickHolden]

Have you seen these one's?

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!goauto_content.dealer_vehicle?vehicle_id=2045441&current_rec=7&total_rec=22&sort_type=3&make_id=8&model_id=68&search_distance=25&sort_type=3

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!goauto_content.dealer_vehicle?vehicle_id=2093868&current_rec=6&total_rec=22&sort_type=3&make_id=8&model_id=68&search_distance=25&sort_type=3

[Blue Supra]

yeh i seen them. its interesting. i was getting some online loan quotes and to lend 20k over 3 years itll be somethinr close to or on 300 bucks a fortnight. ($3900 in interest)

to lease a brand new XR6T for 3 years is 400 - 450 bucks a fortnight.

at the end of 3 years which has depreciated/ held its value more? :confused:

[fpv_gtho]

I agree if Holden have 40kw++ extra and ford don't match it it's only going to kill both cause there wont be a rivalry so not many will give a crap then.
It was hard when holden had 220kw and ford 200kw or was it 185?

One of the best things that happend was BA 260-290 kw V8's Made Holden and HSV wake up from (02) 235kw to (04) 250kw(ss) 260kw(monaro).
And HSV (02) 260kw base to (04) 297kw Base. And remove the GTS.
As KOS said maybe it's a wakeup ford needs like holden got in 02

For a big part, its the engine size and the power that sells a car. If youve got 2 competing cars though pretty close on those 2, i guess its then you rely on back to back test drives to sell either car, HSV were afraid of falling back with that on the Y series one as despite having a bigger engine, they were down on power and the FPV's were just quicker when driven hard,and easier to live with.

[2ndclasscitizen]

wouldnt buy it anyway. gotta be 6 speed manual mate;):)
i thought the 6 speed only came in the turbo

[Blue Supra]

i thought the 6 speed only came in the turbo

It does on the Supra but i was referring to a VTII SS. The one slick found was a slushbox. i want the 6 speed if i get one.:)

[2ndclasscitizen]

ah of course

[Blue Supra]

i thought the 6 speed only came in the turbo

WAIT!

it was an option on the SZ-R.

which is in a fact a non turbo. theres just not many of them. and they cost a lot more funnily enough... go figure.

[fpv_gtho]

Next you'll tell us all the ratios of the box and how they were compared to the turbo models :p

[Blue Supra]

well you get most pull from 1 - 3rd in the 5 speed. in the 6 its a bit more like 1-5th and 6th is an overdrive. i could post up the ratios and stuff but the URL is at home where i get my figures from:p

[fpv_gtho]

Im surprise the 6 speed isnt a double overdrive, unless its got a pretty low diff ratio which means they could only get away with 1 overdrive, like the SV6

[Blue Supra]

ill put em up sometime. but not this arvo... im geeking it up and going to a LAN party >.<

[fpv_gtho]

oh that sounds.......nerdy

[Blue Supra]

well it didnt end up happening as everyone piked so i went and watched the Brumbies instead:)

JUST CAUSE IM A NERD HOI!



:p

[SlickHolden]

Join the club fellow nerd:p

[Blue Supra]

GALAVEN HOI HOI!!! :p

[2ndclasscitizen]

...with the running and the exploding and the GLAVEN...oh that monkey's going to pay

[SlickHolden]

Is this a game ?

[fpv_gtho]

If not i think its gunna end up that way slick :p

[SlickHolden]

It's been so long since i played games i forget half the new ones comming out:p

[Blue Supra]

Half Life 2 is out
Gran Turismo 4 is out
Constantine (the game) is out (soon?)

i want a PS2 and GT4 :cries:
but i cant afford to go spend 300 on em right now:(

[2ndclasscitizen]

i wanna get mercenaires for xbox but i don't wanna fork out $90 then not ever have time to play it with uni and work

[Blue Supra]

well thats it isnt it. i barely get time to sit down for a moment to myself once i get home, someone always wants my attention and i never get much (if any) free time to play games anymore:(

[SlickHolden]

they should make it a 30 hour day. 9 hours work 8 hours play 13 hours sleep:p

I want to see constantine the movie:D
I played half life 1 but havent played GT since GT2

[fpv_gtho]

Mate my GT rips it up in GT4...........439kw, 900nm, 1510kg......:D:D:D

[2ndclasscitizen]

how'd you get a falcon to 1500kg :p

[fpv_gtho]

The V8 Supercars get down to 1355kg so dont think its impossible :p

Its got all 3 weight reduction packages done though, the 1st dropped about 200kg by gutting the interior, 2nd dropped about 50kg with carbon front guards and bonnet and 3rd dropped about 40kg with composite chassis parts

[SlickHolden]

I remember in gt2 i drove the escuda 4wd:D that was great 900hp? or something.

[Blue Supra]

i cant afford a PS2 and GT4 anymore, the brake mans taken all my money:(

[clutch-monkey]

i wanna get mercenaires for xbox but i don't wanna fork out $90 then not ever have time to play it with uni and work
get it 2nd hand in a few months. very enjoyable that game

[Blue Supra]

yeh 2nd hand and ebay are the way to go with games. or get wait till sales are on at Electronics Boutique and Games Wizards.

[fpv_gtho]

I remember in gt2 i drove the escuda 4wd:D that was great 900hp? or something.

yeah, 900-950hp in GT2, you could get it to 1800hp in GT3 and i havent seen it in GT4 yet, although it handled like a pig in GT3

[Blue Supra]

i woudnt know...:(