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Niko_Fx
04-28-2005, 04:10 PM
Amazing.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=pslounge&message.id=93290

tallguynate
04-28-2005, 04:16 PM
Wow :eek:

Matra et Alpine
04-28-2005, 04:25 PM
I'd wait to see them moving before deciding.

Rendering an excellent image is hard, rendering a dynamic moving image is VERY hard. Cant' tell which this is :(

Rockefella
04-28-2005, 04:28 PM
Very nice but ROFL at the civic in pic 1.

Cotterik
04-28-2005, 04:33 PM
holy sh*t if thats real i think we are in for some SERIOUS gaming

Cotterik
04-28-2005, 04:39 PM
latest images

http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/ps3/ps3-image.jpg

http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/ps3/ps3-image2.jpg

http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/ps3/ps3-image3.jpg

PsychoChimp22
04-28-2005, 04:43 PM
Holy ****ing shit....

PsychoChimp22
04-28-2005, 04:43 PM
Cotterik are those images you just posted real?!?!

carlover
04-28-2005, 04:57 PM
Cotterik are those images you just posted real?!?!
I'm pretty sure those are fan made concept pictures. Not 100% sure though.

As for those screen shots... the smilie says all... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Wolf03
04-28-2005, 05:00 PM
Nope, chopped.

Also, not meaning to break your bubble but that's actually a PC game as seen here: http://www.3dgamers.com/games/2daystovegas/screenshots/

No console could deliver that kind of graphics.

my porsche
04-28-2005, 05:01 PM
ricksta, theres a lindsay pic on tehre, very real

carlover
04-28-2005, 05:06 PM
Nope, chopped.
That's kinda what I meant by "Fan-made" (of the PS3 at least) concept pictures. :p

johnnynumfiv
04-28-2005, 05:07 PM
Lol, on that site they have a dualie dakota, LMAO.

http://www.steelmonkeys.com/screenshots/dtv/dtv_10.jpg

Sweeney921
04-28-2005, 05:29 PM
WOW, the shading and reflections of those renderings is absolutely incredible! almost looks like real life.

And the shape of the PS3 concept picture gave me an idea: what if the console doubled as a HDTV front projector?

Cotterik
04-28-2005, 05:37 PM
Cotterik are those images you just posted real?!?!

theyre from an updated ps3 news site, so it could well be, it looks real enough, and fits specification.

Cotterik
04-28-2005, 05:38 PM
Nope, chopped.

Also, not meaning to break your bubble but that's actually a PC game as seen here: http://www.3dgamers.com/games/2daystovegas/screenshots/

No console could deliver that kind of graphics.

but it could be released on console aswel, so who knows

Vindesh17
04-28-2005, 05:48 PM
those pics of the PS3 are definitely real but the game pics aren't

Wolf03
04-28-2005, 05:48 PM
My point is that those pictures are taken from a PC version. Trust me, the graphics will be lowered on the consoles, same what happened with Doom 3 and other games.

Also, a quick search on Google revealed that the game is for PC, PS2 and Xbox.

hec16
04-28-2005, 06:03 PM
Nice grapgics love them can't wait for it to go out
Cotterik those pictures you posted look like a PS3 Camera
________
Nexium Settlements (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

NuclearCrap
04-28-2005, 06:49 PM
I don't think the PS3 will support UMD because there's no point. The little UMD better stick with the PSP. UMD games are really crappy on TV as anyone could imagine, and I don't think that it's time to replace DVD yet. I'm sure that PS3 will achieve PC graphics since NVidia is helping Sony. I'm now done with GT4 and waiting for GT5, it'd better be good. The worst thing about GT4 is the wheels, they look like a piece of paper when you drive your car but 3D when you're studying it in your garage. I hope a better processor and graphic card can fix that.

r1ckst4
04-28-2005, 10:46 PM
ricksta, theres a lindsay pic on tehre, very real
haha.. yep, i cant wait for the game to come out so i can watch Lindsay dance for me all night loooong :D http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Awesome graphics though! that yellow holden look-a-like looks so freakin real!

Mustang
04-29-2005, 12:44 AM
wowsies :p

http://www.steelmonkeys.com/screenshots/dtv/dtv_11.jpg

Blitz_
04-29-2005, 01:55 AM
omg...son of a bitch, way to tweak aussie cars, that a holden monaro with the BA Falcon rear lights, and from the front looks like the mazda 6 front headlights...son of a bitch :D:D

Matra et Alpine
04-29-2005, 03:03 AM
I don't think the PS3 will support UMD because there's no point. The little UMD better stick with the PSP. UMD games are really crappy on TV as anyone could imagine,
Why should that be ?
UMD is only the storage medium used to deliver the game.

and I don't think that it's time to replace DVD yet.
BlueRay says otherwise :)

I'm sure that PS3 will achieve PC graphics since NVidia is helping Sony.
Sure it will match the middle range of the current cards.
But by the time it launches PC graphic card developers will be running HDTV quality at terra rates with 16 -32 pipelines.
What will be interesting is where the end point occurs.

The worst thing about GT4 is the wheels, they look like a piece of paper when you drive your car but 3D when you're studying it in your garage. I hope a better processor and graphic card can fix that.
perfect example of point raised earlier.
Rendering an image of VERY high quality takes a lot of effort.
To make a high quality MOVING OBJECT is an order of magnitude more difficult and requires HUGE processing power. I worked in HP when we first provided the computing power for Shrek rendering, would put NASA to shame :)

Any surface for a dynamic model has to be broken down into individual surfaces which are then positioned by the CPU and rendered by the graphic engine. MORE surfaces means more processing in the graphics engine. In most current games a wheel is one surface for the outer face and anything from 8 ( where the tyres look really chunk ) to 32 ( where the eye accepts it as smooth ).

IF you want a wheel that renders dynamically to match the static then first you need a surface for the disk and caliper that sits inside the wheel. one surface for the hub. Then for each spoke you need a surface for each side - assuming crude triangle. BUT it you want a smooth curved spoke then it could be 15 plus surfaces PER spoke. So for a 5 spoke wheel we've 75.
Then the outer rim of the wheel edge. Again you'd need to go more than double current and that would involve at LEAST 64 surfaces. Then the same again for the tyre sidewall and the same again for the tyre surface.
So instead of current 33 surfaces you have 280.
So now you need a rendering engine that is 10 TIMES FASTER than before.
Oh and we've NOT rendered the INSIDE of the wheel/tyre. If this was an open wheel car - or you like absolute accuracy from all angels then you nearly double that performance need to 20 TIMES :)

Anyone going "oh shit" yet ? Coz I've not even TOUCHED on the issues of managing to do realistic lighting, shading and reflections on all those individual surfaces yet :)

Coventrysucks
04-29-2005, 07:21 AM
BlueRay says otherwise :)

Blu Ray = 25 - 50

Holographic DVD = 100

Quiggs
04-29-2005, 07:29 AM
Tech question... Isn't the real limiting factor with consoles the fact that most people don't own HDTV's, so the screen resolution will always be limited to a lower standard than PC's? I know some games for Xbox and PS2 have been in 1040i, but the number of people who have component TV's and cables for their consoles are probably rather slim.

The technology in the box is limited, true; but why wouldn't Sony and MS go to an upgradable console? They already started this a little with hard disks and Ethernet connections. And I've known several people who have taken everything out of the Xboxes and replaced it with upgraded components. Why wouldn't Sony and MS want a piece of that action?

Blitz_
04-29-2005, 08:02 AM
price and the level of complication i guess, and then again it would then be a PC

Mustang
04-29-2005, 08:09 AM
so how much will this super dooper pwning maching cost then ?

Matra et Alpine
04-29-2005, 08:31 AM
Holographic DVD = 100
5-10 years out :(

We saw a holographic memory "cube" at Hp-Labs once, it was impressive. Nothing moved, it was likeout of star trek :) It only held about 1kbytes, but it was a few years back !!

Matra et Alpine
04-29-2005, 08:37 AM
Tech question... Isn't the real limiting factor with consoles the fact that most people don't own HDTV's, so the screen resolution will always be limited to a lower standard than PC's? I know some games for Xbox and PS2 have been in 1040i, but the number of people who have component TV's and cables for their consoles are probably rather slim.
True but the tecjies who're willing to pay the top $$ an( and hence maxp profit to manufacturer ) are the kind who DO have it :)
Besides in 5 years time we'll all have it !!

The technology in the box is limited, true; but why wouldn't Sony and MS go to an upgradable console? They already started this a little with hard disks and Ethernet connections. And I've known several people who have taken everything out of the Xboxes and replaced it with upgraded components. Why wouldn't Sony and MS want a piece of that action?
Lets jsut describe this "upgradebale consoel" for a second....

So you want to upgrade the processor. OK now we need a standard bus to interface the processor to the graphic. memory and I/O busses and the processor has to be ain a standard layout for future improvemnts to be compatibel with.
Want to upgrade memory ? OK now we need a standard memory acceess adn refressh scheme and slots to take additional memory modules using a commonf format connector.
Want to upgrade graphics ? OK, now we need a standard bus to interface the GPU to the processor and the Grgraphics memory to the main memory with very high bandwidth. It need sot have a standardised connecter so future versions are comaptible.
Finally we need a common bus to plug I'O devices onto for networking, joysticsk etc.
Finaly we need a common operating system which can handle the variations future verions might bring to the system and can allow software disigners an "abstract machine" to develop for independant of the actual hardware at any give time. The operating system needs to be upgradable for new feaures and ideally shoudl intergrate gaming, network, web browsing and maybe get it to do some e-mail as well.

erm .... we've got one of those already ( 2 really ) :)

IF you want flexibility it costs. IF you want it so nothing changes and you manufacture a few hundred million EXACTLY THE SAME you can make it cheap.

You can't manage both :(

ZeTurbo
04-29-2005, 11:09 AM
WOW, the shading and reflections of those renderings is absolutely incredible! almost looks like real life.

And the shape of the PS3 concept picture gave me an idea: what if the console doubled as a HDTV front projector?
what if it could fly, and bring u beer WHITHOUT interrupting your game....

6'bore
04-29-2005, 11:18 AM
I really can't wait for the PS3.

ZeTurbo
04-29-2005, 11:21 AM
i wonder if GT5 will FINALLY get it right this time:
1. PORSCHE AND FERRARI
2. REAL DAMAGE
3. Tire Marks

Coventrysucks
04-29-2005, 11:49 AM
Consoles are pretty much obsolete.

PCs are much superior due to their ability to facilitate easy upgrades, and generally a PC will give much better performance.

True; consoles are slightly cheaper, but the advantages of a PC more than make up for the small difference.

I see the convergance of technologies being more prevalent in the near future.

Already my PC acts as my Hi-fi and I usually watch DVDs on it, I could watch TV on it as well, but that would be slightly anti-social.

TVs inevitably form the focal point of the lounge, where a group of people can gather. PCs are more commonly tucked away, or at a desk, making the same sort of group viewing more difficult.

Why bother with a TV though?
It would be very easy to replace a TV with a PC, then you could have a single unit in the living room that acted as a TV, PC, Hifi and games console.

With multiple displays you could easily watch TV on one screen whilst surfing the web on another, and you wouldn't have to hide in another room to do it.

Having a PC instead of a TV + Console would make gaming much easier, and generally better.

Matra et Alpine
04-29-2005, 11:55 AM
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?storeName=storefronts&category=entertainment_systems&subcat1=dec&catLevel=2&product_code=PS502AA%23ABA

Throw out the Hi-Fi, the Surround Sound system, DVD player, Video Recorder, Radio and Analog and Digital TV receivers and put it all in one box :) NOW [ and increase my share dividends thanks :) ]

Combine it with a 1080i compatible display and you're away and laughing :)
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?product_code=P8724AA%23ABA&tab=detailed_specs&storeName=storefronts&landing=&category=flat_panel_tvs&subcat1=lcd&catLevel=2#defaultAnchor

Go to the tv room NOW, smash everything with a hammer and tell your parents/partner you're buying ALL OF THE ABOVE coz I say it's good for you and me :)


Seriously all the parts are there to remove ALL the various boxes from shelves in rooms and only have a remote control receiver in each room :)

Coventrysucks
04-29-2005, 12:17 PM
Exactly.

There would be an argument for keeping the Hi-Fi seperate for those audiophiles, if you are going down the one-box route though there isn't much need for an especially high quality Hi-Fi set up as the music will be MP3 or similar.

Matra et Alpine
04-29-2005, 12:22 PM
Exactly.

There would be an argument for keeping the Hi-Fi seperate for those audiophiles, if you are going down the one-box route though there isn't much need for an especially high quality Hi-Fi set up as the music will be MP3 or similar.
Listen to some MP4 (AAC) and be astounded through a decent setup :)

In numerous comparison tests, AAC comes out on top. Check out these impressive results:
AAC compressed audio at 128 kbps (stereo) has been judged by expert listeners to be “indistinguishable” from the original uncompressed audio source.*
* Information provided by Dolby Labs.

Blitz_
04-30-2005, 04:33 AM
"Consoles are pretty much obsolete."

lol rather the opposite, the gaming and console industry is growing exponentially.

Matra et Alpine
04-30-2005, 04:51 AM
"Consoles are pretty much obsolete."

lol rather the opposite, the gaming and console industry is growing exponentially.
http://news.com.com/Game+console+sales+plunge+in+2004/2100-1043_3-5471617.html?tag=nefd.top

not quite :)

~20million versus 35 ??

fpv_gtho
04-30-2005, 04:54 AM
That just means theyre popular

werty
04-30-2005, 09:27 AM
Trust me, the graphics will be lowered on the consoles.


Why should we, no one here has seen a real ps3 in action, so how can anyone say anything. I'm going to be optimistic and say that when the PS3 comes out, you will be amazed, and possibly never buy games for your computer again. Possibly

Now im all excited for it :D

Matra et Alpine
04-30-2005, 10:11 AM
Why should we, no one here has seen a real ps3 in action, so how can anyone say anything. I'm going to be optimistic and say that when the PS3 comes out, you will be amazed, and possibly never buy games for your computer again. Possibly

Now im all excited for it :D
Why woudl you be escited about the PS3 graphics ?
The technology they are lifting to put into all the current console designs are the stabel ones from the graphics design companies as at this time.
So at best they'll be as good as an over-clocked 6800 with double the texture memory.

But by then you're likely to see the NEXT gen processors and they wil again take it to ANOTHER level and concoles will look poor in comparison.

TRUE photo-realism with REAL wheel textures, REAL interior texture , REAL driver/passenger textures are a long way off current hardware but in a year or twos time ??

THEN we add the processing to for example support true damage models on car sims. Then you'll be looking at multiple processors - and not jsut the multipel stream handling of the new consoels which are goign to be good for the linear math of mvoement, but to support the modifieable math for damae impact is goint o be anothe rstep. To do that the multi processor support the next gen nVida SLI core and Qudara core has always supported will be necessary adn availabel in PCs costing $1000 :)

What you WILL get with consoel is better bang for buck, just not better bang :)

Blitz_
04-30-2005, 08:19 PM
its not all about eye candy though is it? me thinks ocarina of time, chrono trigger and FFVII are, and will be better than next generation RPG's

Alastor
04-30-2005, 08:50 PM
THEN we add the processing to for example support true damage models on car sims. Then you'll be looking at multiple processors - and not jsut the multipel stream handling of the new consoels which are goign to be good for the linear math of mvoement, but to support the modifieable math for damae impact is goint o be anothe rstep. To do that the multi processor support the next gen nVida SLI core and Qudara core has always supported will be necessary adn availabel in PCs costing $1000 :)


I hope that a dedicated physics processing unit is developed soon for PC. I think physics is one area where all games could use a large improvement. I thought Half Life 2 was a great step forward, but there is still a long way to go.

Matra et Alpine
05-01-2005, 12:41 AM
its not all about eye candy though is it? me thinks ocarina of time, chrono trigger and FFVII are, and will be better than next generation RPG's
Correct and going back a few handful of posts ... what do you need for "gameplay" ?
Lots of fairly advanced processing power.
NOT the fast pipelines or the most but the most INTELLIGENT.

What do you come back to ?? Fast, powerful CPU - that'll be AMD and/or Intel then :) PowerPC has limitations on what they can do instruction set wise becuase of numerous patents :)

Matra et Alpine
05-01-2005, 12:46 AM
I hope that a dedicated physics processing unit is developed soon for PC. I think physics is one area where all games could use a large improvement. I thought Half Life 2 was a great step forward, but there is still a long way to go.
Why does the PC need "dedicated physics processing unit" ?

Determinig phyiscs and aspects of "gameplay" are abotu doign lots of inferential calculations, object analysis, interaction and decision making.

All those take are additional methods to the objects.
And a fast general purpose processor is best suited for handling those tasks.

If you split physics out to a spereate procesor then you have the problem of communicating the interaction between the movement ( person, weapon, car, object ) and the decision making - does the person pick the object up, if picked up does the weight of the object now slow the person down. Modern games are developed much more structured than in the past as they are now able to take advatage of the object-oriented design benefits without worrying about running out of processing power.

Check out the AI in Call of Duty or GT-R. A LOT different from in the past.

Alastor
05-01-2005, 08:35 AM
Why does the PC need "dedicated physics processing unit" ?

Determinig phyiscs and aspects of "gameplay" are abotu doign lots of inferential calculations, object analysis, interaction and decision making.

All those take are additional methods to the objects.
And a fast general purpose processor is best suited for handling those tasks.

I think the point is that by having a dedicated processing unit rather than general processing unit can be optimized for a single task making it significantly faster.



If you split physics out to a spereate procesor then you have the problem of communicating the interaction between the movement ( person, weapon, car, object ) and the decision making - does the person pick the object up, if picked up does the weight of the object now slow the person down. Modern games are developed much more structured than in the past as they are now able to take advatage of the object-oriented design benefits without worrying about running out of processing power.

I don’t know about any of that since I an not a hardware designer. However, AGEIA Technologies Inc will demo a Physics Processing Unit (PPU) at E3 this year. Also, it is expected that the next Unreal engine (Unreal 3) will be capable of using their PPU in 2006.

Link about that can found here: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22592


Here is a an interview with AGEIA on the PPU and it might answer some of the questions you are looking for: http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm





Walls and surroundings should be fully destructible within games - ever been driving a tank in a game like Call of Duty: United Offensive and been stopped by a shrub? Or why is it you can't blow a hole in a wall and kill your opponent behind that wall? The reason for many of these anomalies? The lack of horsepower under the CPU hood to fulfill those desires. Ageia's PPU is an important step in the right direction as it can take the current limit of 30-40 bodies of today's high-end CPUs to a maximum of 40,000. One can truly see, when looking at those kind of numbers, just why a PPU is the right thing for gaming and should be a technology we all keep an eye on.



GD: What is a PPU, and why should anyone be concerned about owning one?

Curtis: The Physics Processing Unit (PPU) is a dedicated processing unit that was built from the ground up to accelerate the algorithms required for physically based simulations. This includes things such as Rigid Body Dynamics, Collision Detection, Fluid Simulation, Soft Bodies and Fracturing of objects. It will revolutionize your CPU/GPU system by unlocking the potential of the system by allowing each of the processing components to do what is best at. The PPU makes the games move and interact! We are really bridging the gap between the visual appearances and the movement of games that should go along with the graphics of today.

The PPU is different from but complementary to the CPU/GPU as follows: It is dependent on the nature of application for which the processor has been optimized. For instance, a GPU have been designed efficiently to do 3D transform in a highly parallelized pipelined fashion to speed lighting effects, object transforms and rendering output to the users Monitor, So GPU -- How things Look. The CPU on the other hand is a general purpose device designed to support a wide profile of application and most efficiently supply performance to a wide spectrum of application but not optimized to run a particular application at it most optimal performance.

The best way to understand the difference of the three processors is how they interact with the game engine. The CPU drives the core thinking of how the game respond to the player, it performs housekeeping and scripting functions. The PPU is designed to drive how objects move and interact with virtual world. So PPU – How Things move and Interact. One view of the CPU is it is an open highly flexible computation engine which enables programmers to develop wide class of applications quickly and efficiently; the PPU and GPU are developed to run a set of focused specific class of applications, exceling in their respective algorithms with highest possible performance.

Koenigsegg_CC
05-01-2005, 10:18 AM
...........................
http://www.steelmonkeys.com/screenshots/dtv/dtv_4.jpg
I am gettin this game :eek:

Cadillac Imaj
05-02-2005, 12:38 AM
i am getting this game and ps3.

Matra et Alpine
05-02-2005, 02:30 PM
I think the point is that by having a dedicated processing unit rather than general processing unit can be optimized for a single task making it significantly faster.
No problem with that. As I described however when you have DEDICATED processing units you then face the MAJOR BLOCKAGE in trying to get all the information between all the different processing units. This is fine when games were simple. BUT when we have come to expect smart AI in the other objects in the game then you cant' do things in a liner fashion. So the levels of interaction make it near impossibel to distribute the information to processeing engines for them then to come together again.
Hence why PCs do better at games :)



I don’t know about any of that since I an not a hardware designer. However, AGEIA Technologies Inc will demo a Physics Processing Unit (PPU) at E3 this year. Also, it is expected that the next Unreal engine (Unreal 3) will be capable of using their PPU in 2006.[/QUOTE{
I was told that the current Unreal engine can use multiple processors in the PC.
It will be HOW they make the variosu physical, grasphical and computational challenges come together. Making one part fast doesnt' make for the ideal solution.
[QUOTE]Here is a an interview with AGEIA on the PPU and it might answer some of the questions you are looking for: http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm
Interesting, thanks for the link, looks like a typical good idea looking for funding and floating an IPO.
What can be guaranteed is that if it doesn't get built in to the next version of DirectX it won't happen.
Remember Voodoo, they had superbly fast graphics designs WAY IN ADVANCE of nVidia at the time BUT microsoft took DirectX in the opposite duirection for the abstratvion of lighting models and 3dlabs died. The onece largest ggraphic chip producer disappeared within a year.
The PPU sounds a good idea, but as said before they're going to struggle to make PCI-X do the business. The DirectX model ( as used in PC *AND* XBox ) is goign to push more and larger textures along thae PCI-X bus. To ask the same bus to be involved in the PPu is goign to be the bottleneck. IF they're smart they''ll work with chipset designers to try to get multiple PCI-X full width PCI-X bandwidth.
Notice that they have to get the develoeprs to buy into using it as it will involve them in designing their engien to call up the PPU. So THEN what happens to theose who dont' have PPUs ?? Game runds slower ? Or are the game develoeprs then having to write multiple version and reduce their chances of breaking even. As said in the article, the chances are they'll get eaten up ( as 3dlabs ) and some of their features will get implementd in the graphics cards and some will be sold as intelltectual property to Microsof tfro DirectX :)

Wolf03
05-03-2005, 01:17 PM
Recent news at spong confirm that this game (2 Days to Vegas) will ONLY be available for PC - http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8637
Those kind of graphics on a console? HA!!! Keep dreaming. By the time consoles will be able to render those kind of graphics, there will already be virtual-reality games where you strap on a suit and play.