Vehicular Pussification

[Egg Nog]

I was trying to think of cars that are still hardcore, but I can't think of any new "normal" cars that fit the bill. The Lotus Elise, Viper GTS, Caterhams, Corvette Z06 have not been significantly watered-down over the years - they're not pretending to be anything more than what they are. But I can't really think of any sedans (etc) that haven't been massively pussified over the years.

I'm talking about cars that aren't way too heavy, way too luxurious, and way too easy to drive.

How many recent cars would you consider hardcore?

[my porsche]

carrera gt.. although not many years to have pussified

[Egg Nog]

That doesn't really count though. Supercars have always been in that sort of style, and there was no previous model to compare it to.

I'm generally talking about normal, everyday cars that are possible for normal human beings in our countries to potentially own.

[my porsche]

bmw m3?

[CdocZ]

None. Simple. Humanity has turned into a lazy S.O.B., that can't be bothered to put the effort into doing something their very parents were doing, and would rather have a machine do it. Sure, it's more efficient.......but you are right, for cars, it just takes the fun out of it kind of.

One car that is a giant driving aid, and will always, in my mind, be the one engineering marvel that if anything, made a company WORSE. The car I am talking about.......is the new M5. I was recently looking at the manual of a friends 5##i, and I noticed something.......the manual usually shows you how to do small fixes here and there on the car......or do something like change the tire. The only stuff in this cars manual, was how to use each of the 100+ driving aids. This is not even the M5!!!!!!!!!

[Egg Nog]

bmw m3?

Hahahaha, NO. Add hundreds of driving aids and kilos, stir, and what do you get? Pussification. Faster doesn't mean more hardcore.

Keep trying, you'll get one :D

[Misho]

i think that the Honda S2000 (or shall i say S2200??) is a pretty "true" car. at least by today's standards.

[CdocZ]

Hahahaha, NO.

Keep trying, you'll get one :D

5 series/M5. Every cheaper Mercedes. Anything from Asia pretty much. American cars tend to be more "do it yourself, f*cktard, without a computer" :p

[Egg Nog]

i think that the Honda S2000 (or shall i say S2200??) is a pretty "true" car. at least by today's standards.

This I agree with. It is designed to be a driver's car. Not everything new is un-hardcore, so the engine design is still good. It's not trying to be a combination of anything, just a pure, decent car.

I'd say that BMW and Mercedes rank among the very top of vehicular pussification, in almost all of their cars.

[D2LTA]

regulations dont help the cause...... we're all cotton wool kids....

[CdocZ]

i think that the Honda S2000 (or shall i say S2200??) is a pretty "true" car. at least by today's standards.

Probably the best "normal everyday" roadster you can find, at least in America (for the price). It may have a few (by "a few" I mean like less then 10) driving aids.........but A) It can go fast, and B) it requires skill to drive, unlike some cars today, like some of the BMW sportscars which will soon be "tell it where to go, and enjoy your sleep while listening to a barely audible hum"-cars (something about BMW's that infuriate me......they say "WE HAVE AWESOME SPORTY CARS" yet you have to really concentrate and have rather good hearing it seems, to even notice there IS an engine).

[Egg Nog]

regulations dont help the cause...... we're all cotton wool kids....

This much is true. This is mostly to blame for vehicular pussification. Also, most of the money spent on cars is in the hands of the "baby boomers", who are now getting old/lazy/sore backs.

The rarity of good, hardcore automobiles is definitely a fact. It's getting hard to find cars for people who want to drive a car, rather than just a mode of transportation that doubles as a couch. That's what this thread is about :D

When cars get bigger, they need to be safer, so they get heavier. When everything gets bigger/heavier, everything else has to adjust up as well so that it will stay "safe". It's a vicious cycle. The fact that the driver is so far removed from the experience probably has a lot to do with the increase in small accidents/cars getting bigger to stay safe. Being highly in touch with the driving experience keeps you aware.

[CdocZ]

This much is true. When cars get bigger, they need to be safer, so they get heavier. It's a vicious cycle. This is mostly to blame for vehicular pussification. Also, most of the money spend on cars is in the hands of the "baby boomers", who are now getting old/lazy/sore backs.

The rarity of good, hardcore automobiles is definitely a fact. It's getting hard to find cars for people who want to drive a car, rather than just a mode of transportation that doubles as a couch. That's what this thread is about :D

The baby boomer's getting sore.......? Damn, that describes the guy who owns a C6 Vette on my block. He got it with the more luxurious seats and automatic because he is "getting old, and doesn't want to have to deal with it". Then again.......the C6 in manual, with all the performance options really is hardcore.

Yeah......and "heavier cars" has evolved into a craze of buying SUV's here in America.... :(

At least Ford keeps the Mustang pure, and who would have thought Honda could do it too? (S2000, again)

[:Exige:]

Lotus are starting to pussify :( The S1 Exige was 750kg, the boot was the engine bay and the engine was brutal. The S2 Exige has a proper boot, heavier Toyota engine which is made to be easier to drive for all of the pussies who dont understand why you buy an Exige and the interior is less stripped out .. so it weights 980kg but still has 190bhp .. so is almost a second slower to 60, which is a lifetime. Morgan and TVR are the people who take no sh*t .. if new regulations or trends come in which threaten the awesomness of their cars, they manipulate the rules to make something even more extreme than its predecessor. I thought they were going downhill with the relatively friendly T350 until they showed us the Typhoon and Sagaris.

[D2LTA]

it doesnt help when these cars eventually get older... they will be f+++++d and the owner wont feel it......

[clutch-monkey]

cars are getting heavier for sure, does that 'pussify' them?
1990 commodore 1400kg, 2004 commodore 1700kg!

[taz_rocks_miami]

The Evo III comes to mind, it's got mind blowing performance at a reasonable price and can sit 5 people :) I don't think being easy to drive is a bad thing, what new car, hard core or not isn't easy to drive now a days anyway?

[Coventrysucks]

Any Peter Wheeler era TVR - Routinely sticking two fingers up to the establishment.

ABS? Airbags? For pansys!

Traction control?! F**k off!

You want it to sound like the Apocalypse? Certainly!

I think even he may even have described the Chimeara as a "Griffith for women" or something vaguley similar. Or not.

The cars are loud, brash and demand 100% concentration at the helm or they will spit you off the road and into a tree. The Cerbera in particular had quite a reputation for being a bit of a handful in damp conditions.

[CHEESE-TACULAR]

i gots a simpel answer-the Subaru Impreza, NOT THE WRX-if you look at the first sedan/coupe/wagon and todays version they havent changed much. thew all retain decent preformance, awd, good price-it may not be what you were considering but it fits the bill

[Widsinator]

My car, a Super Stalker . Driver aids, yeah right, it doesnt even have ABS, much less traction control. It weighs 1500 pounds with fuel, and has an engine that won't forgive you in a car like this, a 3.8l Supercharged V6. 300HP and 320 FT Lbs, 0-60 in 3.9 0-100 in 8.5, and will out handle anything else on the road. I was in the mountains today outrunning the brand new superbikes, and while they are not professional drivers neither am I. Go to http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7163239&uid=2662040 for pics, or www.stalkerv6.com for more info, it is a SuperStalker.

Edit: before this happens I will have a thread with an Eggnog soon, I only got it this thursday so I'm enjoying it too much to take the time to do that.

[Birdman]

Evo 6 is another. It's stripped out and a handful to drive but it is loads of fun.

[CdocZ]

My car, a Super Stalker . Driver aids, yeah right, it doesnt even have ABS, much less traction control. It weighs 1500 pounds with fuel, and has an engine that won't forgive you in a car like this, a 3.8l Supercharged V6. 300HP and 320 FT Lbs, 0-60 in 3.9 0-100 in 8.5, and will out handle anything else on the road. I was in the mountains today outrunning the brand new superbikes, and while they are not professional drivers neither am I. Go to http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7163239&uid=2662040 for pics, or www.stalkerv6.com for more info, it is a SuperStalker.

Edit: before this happens I will have a thread with an Eggnog soon, I only got it this thursday so I'm enjoying it too much to take the time to do that.

That.....is such........an awesome........car.........how much does that thing cost? Is it legal in America? Damn it's cool.

[Esperante]

Panoz AIV Roadster...but they discontinued that.
:(

[D2LTA]

Wow... i know some bikers, the trail/supermotards are easy enough but the superbikes (busas) take extreme concentration and sometimes desperate measures to take on.... you got the tool :)

[taz_rocks_miami]

These could qualify as hardcore:


And the best part, you can still get them new from Caterham and Shelby :)

[emperor]

Following new cars are absolutely NON-PUSSIES:
Subaru Impreza (fun)
Chrysler 300 (one of a very few American cars I would want to have)
Most of BMW's excluding 1 & 3 series (solid)
Alfa Romeo GT (fits perfectly either in Monte Carlo or on Wallmart parking lot)
Volkswagen Phaeton (VW latest cars were a bit on a gay side, but they come back in style)

[Esperante]

Volkswagen Phaeton (VW latest cars were a bit on a gay side, but they come back in style)
Wouldn't the phaeton be the quintessential Pussified car? Driving aids galore!

[my porsche]

Wouldn't the phaeton be the quintessential Pussified car? Driving aids galore!
it can run for 24 hours at 110mph nonstop or something like that, watch the topgear about it ;)

[CdocZ]

Wouldn't the phaeton be the quintessential Pussified car? Driving aids galore!

Yeah, the Phaeton is not quite, but definitely close to being one of those modern saloons, that was probably made when the excutives said this:

Executive #1: "Well, maybe the buyers won't be that uber rich.....we gotta do something to make their oh so hard, poor lives easier! What else can we do besides provide ridiculous amounts of luxury and feeling-of-uber-power-and-wealth?"
Executive #2: "How about we make it so easy to drive, that they will feel like they aren't even driving it! I mean......not EVERY buyer will be able to afford a chauffer."
Executive #1: "Great idea! Next generation though, we will have to do something crazy, and amazing, that will aid in this! Like a car, that really DOES drive itself! And the seats fold out into a sleeper bed!" :rolleyes:

[Esperante]

it can run for 24 hours at 110mph nonstop or something like that, watch the topgear about it ;)
That doesn't mean anything-it's not a purecar, if you will.

[clutch-monkey]

These could qualify as hardcore:


And the best part, you can still get them new from Caterham and Shelby :)

love shelby's, even like replicas for their variation(one for sale that has a supercharged lexus V8 :eek: )

[my porsche]

ok well a car that can do that isnt a pussy car

[targa]

the legacy has gotten better over the years

[Blue Supra]

HSV's and FPV's still hold strong performance with reasonably priced cars and not totally overweight.

Evo's are also a strong contender here.

[Spastik_Roach]

Mazda Mx5, HSV's and FPV's, Toyota MR2 (love how they made it so it can't be a girly shopping car, no boot! Muwhawhawha), and not a heck of a lot else.

[PsychoChimp22]

NSX i guess, ive never really been to fond of it but over the years it hasnt been pussified at all imo.

[derekthetree]

Lotus are starting to pussify :( The S1 Exige was 750kg, the boot was the engine bay and the engine was brutal. The S2 Exige has a proper boot, heavier Toyota engine which is made to be easier to drive for all of the pussies who dont understand why you buy an Exige and the interior is less stripped out .. so it weights 980kg but still has 190bhp .. so is almost a second slower to 60, which is a lifetime. Morgan and TVR are the people who take no sh*t .. if new regulations or trends come in which threaten the awesomness of their cars, they manipulate the rules to make something even more extreme than its predecessor. I thought they were going downhill with the relatively friendly T350 until they showed us the Typhoon and Sagaris.

i agree about morgan. their cars haven't changed in 70 odd years they cant have been 'pussified'

also i don't think that caterhams have been watered down. i mean you have to pay for a windscreen, roof, doors and even paint.

i also think that at the momemtn there is a veriatble feast of nutter stripped out trackday cars like the atom, xr2 and sr3.

i do agree that most mass produced cars are far to watered won though but as people say above its due to regs and modern expectation of comfort.

[RazaBlade]

My car, a Super Stalker
That is truly incredible!!!!

Not exactly sure what the criteria is, but would GT3 RS work?? Weight reduced to near bare minimum, no creature comforts...and although I don't know what driver aids it has, they can surely all be switched off...
Concurr with s2000 and the TVR range!

[Widsinator]

Yes, I used to ride a Hayabusa then I fell off one day, and decided to quit riding. I then began to miss it and built this, as it is the closest you can get to a bike on 4 wheels. The numbers power to weight wise are not as good as they should be because for how low the car sits it is hard to hook-up right away, but the way it handles more then makes up for it. In the mountains I drive at, a 600 or 1000 is actually faster in then the Busa, because they are nearly 100 punds lighter and are more easily thrown around. The Stalker is still faster though :).

[targa]

NSX i guess, ive never really been to fond of it but over the years it hasnt been pussified at all imo.i didnt like them, at all, and i still am not that much of a fan, but the other day i saw a Honda NSX in town, it actually wasnt that bad, the back end still sucks ass though

[PsychoChimp22]

i didnt like them, at all, and i still am not that much of a fan, but the other day i saw a Honda NSX in town, it actually wasnt that bad, the back end still sucks ass though

Same imo, just didnt want to break japan again. :p

[fpv_gtho]

HSV's and FPV's still hold strong performance with reasonably priced cars and not totally overweight.

Evo's are also a strong contender here.

Theres definately elements of the cars youve mentioned that are still hardcore, but overall the cars are far from it. At least FPV engineered the GT to have the engine shake the car at idle :p

Go back a few years though and the T3 TE50's were pretty raw and hardcore, mainly in the engine though.

[2ndclasscitizen]

i'm not really convinced about the M5s pussification. Unlike a lot of cars today, its traction control can be totally switched off, gearshifts in fractions of a second that jerk you round. Its got one useful pussy feature, the fact that you can set it to less power. I say not pussy.

and Widsinator, your car is awesome. Reminded me of the Elfin MS8, thats ultra hardcore. Turn-in oversteer, mid corner oversteer, exit oversteer. A 800kg clubman with a 245kw 5.7 LS1 V8