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AbsolutePower
05-03-2005, 06:16 PM
Here's a video and call out on all Import VS Domestic shit talking. If you got it, then show up in Arizona to prove it. If not....well just kick back and keep quite. Also there's even a guy in the video that owns a Viper and a Supra talking shit about his own Viper being slow and a piece of over priced junk. So go figure. Anyways here's the call out video.
http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/scandracing/winmedia/sin8_300.wvx

Rockefella
05-03-2005, 06:18 PM
Here's a video and call out on all Import VS Domestic shit talking. If you got it, then show up in Arizona to prove it. If not....well just kick back and keep quite. Also there's even a guy in the video that owns a Viper and a Supra talking shit about his own Viper being slow and a piece of over priced junk. So go figure. Anyways here's the call video.
http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/scandracing/winmedia/sin8_300.wvx
stfu. Put 10k into a fox-body mustang and 10k in a civic and the victor will be obvious. [/sarcasm]

State some track times and figures because the video isn't changing my mind. Sure, imports like the NSX and Supra are good, but the Viper is by no means an over-priced piece of junk.

AbsolutePower
05-03-2005, 06:27 PM
You don't have to come at me all pissy.....read my sig, and you'll know where my heart is.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:35 PM
Know what I would love to see? A Lingenfelter C5 427TT to show up. I mean, hey, they cost less then a stock Skyline or NSX, so why not? Probably because the Import guys would be scared, and say it isn't allowed for some reason.

As for the Viper being "over priced and slow", right, thats why it costs a little less then a stock R34.......damnit, I can't remember.....which one has 5.2 seconds to 60 and which has 3.9 again? Which one is basically a track car that was made street legal? Which one rapes the other stockwise? Oh, I remember now, the VIPER rapes the Skyline stock for stock. Supra's are nice, but are like the crumbs of the bread/Skyline/NSX. The Skyline desperately needs mods, or it gets absolutely raped (R34 specifically). The NSX is a ridiculous handler, but the SRT-10 Viper, and even the C6 Corvette can handle well enough to more then just keep up, but then eat the underpowered NSX alive in the straights. (This entire previous paragraph is stock vs. stock ONLY.)

Modwise, a Lingenfelter would beat pretty much anything, domestic and import that showed up at that place in Arizona.

So, Absolute Power......what do YOU think about what would happen if a Lingenfelter appeared there? Or, a Hennessey Venom, ready and tuned for a 1/4 mile dash on the dragstrip? What about that Pontiac GTO with 1,100 horsepower, from "Modern Day Muscle Cars"? That GTo will tear a Supra apart, and it only costs about $60,000 including the car. For the Camaro's you got loads of upgrades, including some more Lingenfelter. And Saleen Mustang's might not be the greatest track racers, but DAMN if they aren't fast yet cheap drag racers.

Once again, as Rockefella pointed out............at least state some track times to help your argument, because right now, you really do not have one.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:36 PM
You don't have to come at me all pissy.....read my sig, and you'll know where my heart is.

Ah......I really do not have the time available to edit like half my post, so sorry bout that :o

Just pretend it is edited at the moment, I will try later.

CHEESE-TACULAR
05-03-2005, 06:40 PM
Know what I would love to see? A Lingenfelter C5 427TT to show up. I mean, hey, they cost less then a stock Skyline or NSX, so why not? Probably because the Import guys would be scared, and say it isn't allowed for some reason.

As for the Viper being "over priced and slow", right, thats why it costs a little less then a stock R34.......damnit, I can't remember.....which one has 5.2 seconds to 60 and which has 3.9 again? Which one is basically a track car that was made street legal? Which one rapes the other stockwise? Oh, I remember now, the VIPER rapes the Skyline stock for stock. Supra's are nice, but are like the crumbs of the bread/Skyline/NSX. The Skyline desperately needs mods, or it gets absolutely raped (R34 specifically). The NSX is a ridiculous handler, but the SRT-10 Viper, and even the C6 Corvette can handle well enough to more then just keep up, but then eat the underpowered NSX alive in the straights. (This entire previous paragraph is stock vs. stock ONLY.)

Modwise, a Lingenfelter would beat pretty much anything, domestic and import that showed up at that place in Arizona.

So, Absolute Power......what do YOU think about what would happen if a Lingenfelter appeared there? Or, a Hennessey Venom, ready and tuned for a 1/4 mile dash on the dragstrip? What about that Pontiac GTO with 1,100 horsepower, from "Modern Day Muscle Cars"? That GTo will tear a Supra apart, and it only costs about $60,000 including the car. For the Camaro's you got loads of upgrades, including some more Lingenfelter. And Saleen Mustang's might not be the greatest track racers, but DAMN if they aren't fast yet cheap drag racers.

Once again, as Rockefella pointed out............at least state some track times to help your argument, because right now, you really do not have one.
How much do a Leightenwatchamacalit cost?

Rockefella
05-03-2005, 06:40 PM
You don't have to come at me all pissy.....read my sig, and you'll know where my heart is.
well, you come off like an import "luva", no hard feelings here though. Cheers. :)

AbsolutePower
05-03-2005, 06:41 PM
Ah......I really do not have the time available to edit like half my post, so sorry bout that :o

Just pretend it is edited at the moment, I will try later.
LOL I knew once you read it you would understand, How do you think I get so many supra, 3000gtvr-4, vette, and other 300zxtt kills. I agree with you completely....let some high dollar american muscle show up and it's cubian neck ties for all the imports.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:41 PM
How much do a Leightenwatchamacalit cost?

The C5 427TT cost around $80,000-$100,000. That is including the C5.

Rockefella
05-03-2005, 06:43 PM
LOL I knew once you read it you would understand, How do you think I get so many supra, 3000gtvr-4, vette, and other 300zxtt kills. I agree with you completely....let some high dollar american muscle show up and it's cubian neck ties for all the imports.
Until they go around a track. :)

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:43 PM
LOL I knew once you read it you would understand, How do you think I get so many supra, 3000gtvr-4, vette, and other 300zxtt kills. I agree with you completely....let some high dollar american muscle show up and it's cubian neck ties for all the imports.

Hehehehe. Not even that ultra high dollar :D

So you like the Japanese style cars, but love the American muscle engines? If I am correct in this, not too many who create that kind of car.

Sorry, but yeah, homework blows.

EDIT:

Until they go around a track. :)

Aren't Lingenfelter's known for their amazing track ability, due to the fact that they not only retain the stock Vette's handling capabilities, but amplify them rather nicely? (And the fact that they accelerate like a cheetah trying to get away from something trying to rape it)

Rockefella
05-03-2005, 06:48 PM
Hehehehe. Not even that ultra high dollar :D

So you like the Japanese style cars, but love the American muscle engines? If I am correct in this, not too many who create that kind of car.

Sorry, but yeah, homework blows.

EDIT:


Aren't Lingenfelter's known for their amazing track ability, due to the fact that they not only retain the stock Vette's handling capabilities, but amplify them rather nicely? (And the fact that they accelerate like a cheetah trying to get away from something trying to rape it)
Lingenfelter yeah, but old muscle cars running 400hp at the flywheel with no ability to turn don't have that track prowess.

CHEESE-TACULAR
05-03-2005, 06:48 PM
The C5 427TT cost around $80,000-$100,000. That is including the C5.
that aint cheaper than a Skyline, a skyline R34 VspecII costs equivilent of about $57,835

AbsolutePower
05-03-2005, 06:51 PM
that aint cheaper than a Skyline, a skyline R34 VspecII costs equivilent of about $57,835
Wanna buy a Skyline r33 cheap, 8 grand...it's sitting in pieces next to my new porject.......THEY ****ING BLOW hahaha...oh yeah and if you don't belive me....I WILL....post pictures.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:52 PM
that aint cheaper than a Skyline, a skyline R34 VspecII costs equivilent of about $57,835

Yeah, but when imported, they tend to have the same price range-possibilities of the Lingenfelter.

EDIT: Which is really annoying, as they really should cost just a bit more then a stock C6.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 06:55 PM
Lingenfelter yeah, but old muscle cars running 400hp at the flywheel with no ability to turn don't have that track prowess.

Oh, those domestics.....yeah, pretty much. Unless you are talking about that '74 Vette with 1,200 hp that was posted a while back :p

But yeah, unless you talk about ^^^ kind of exceptions, old muscle cars will get raped in the turns. Simply, and easily.

CHEESE-TACULAR
05-03-2005, 06:55 PM
Imported an R34 costs 90,000-i think the skyline is way under appreciated here and i blame it all on 2f2f-made it a ricer instead of the preformance car its meant to be...stock 0-60 in 4.7, thats in what 1999?

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 07:00 PM
Imported an R34 costs 90,000-i think the skyline is way under appreciated here and i blame it all on 2f2f-made it a ricer instead of the preformance car its meant to be...stock 0-60 in 4.7, thats in what 1999?

I thought it was 5.2? That's what UCP database has, but people have found many things wrong in there. anyway. Either way.......a 1967 Shelby Cobra 427 can beat it to 60 by the better part of a second!

Which reminds me. At the grocery store today, and waiting for my mom to bring the car around. I see twin roll bars sticking above some cars, but can't see anything, but I hear a "brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!" that sounds like a muscle car at idle. It keeps getting louder as the car gains speed, and comes out of the parking area. Out pops a real (no replica, it has original serial numbers still on it, they let me look :D) 1967 Shelby Cobra. And for cars that I have heard in real life.........Viper included...........I have never heard something that sounded like that. It's sound didn't just give off noise, but a deep, inner sense of power.......and it just sounded great in general too.

Niko_Fx
05-03-2005, 07:07 PM
Another worthless thread...

I'm amazed that so many of you have replied to the ridiculous and endless discussion of "Domestic vs Import" yet again in this forum.

AbsolutePower
05-03-2005, 07:14 PM
Another worthless thread...

I'm amazed that so many of you have replied to the ridiculous and endless discussion of "Domestic vs Import" yet again in this forum.

It wasn't a discussion, it was information to any who would like to enter the event. Not a who's faster or better thread.

Quiggs
05-03-2005, 07:21 PM
http://bill.cs-servers.com/Index/Adam/Funny/deadhorse.gif

We all know Volkswagens are better than Japanese and American cars anyway. :)

my porsche
05-03-2005, 07:21 PM
ok, ill help settle this, they both suck ass, you want a car that is fast and handles well you need an english (noble, ultimat, lotus) german (any porsche, bmw m series, mercedes slk55, audi rs6 or rs4) or italian (any lamborghini, zonda, ferrari, etc.)

the only good imports are evos and wrx sti's, and the tommy kaira ZZII which isnt even a production model, so

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 07:25 PM
ok, ill help settle this, they both suck ass, you want a car that is fast and handles well you need an english (noble, ultimat, lotus) german (any porsche, bmw m series, mercedes slk55, audi rs6 or rs4) or italian (any lamborghini, zonda, ferrari, etc.)

the only good imports are evos and wrx sti's, and the tommy kaira ZZII which isnt even a production model, so

American and Japanese for the $30,000 and under. But after that, you get to English territory ($40,000-$75,000), and how could you forget the Atom's? ;) Germany comes next ($80,000-$120,000), largely with things like M3 CSL's, all the way through to Carrera's. Then.......comes a price range where no one dominates really, until you get to Italy's expensive but fast supercars.

my porsche
05-03-2005, 07:30 PM
American and Japanese for the $30,000 and under. But after that, you get to English territory ($40,000-$75,000), and how could you forget the Atom's? ;) Germany comes next ($80,000-$120,000), largely with things like M3 CSL's, all the way through to Carrera's. Then.......comes a price range where no one dominates really, until you get to Italy's expensive but fast supercars.
well in the video they were accusing the domestics of not having much money, if they have so much, buy a decent car! :D

edit: my bad i totally forgot the atoms and caterhams cdocz! :p

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-03-2005, 07:31 PM
stfu. Put 10k into a fox-body mustang and 10k in a civic and the victor will be obvious. [/sarcasm]

State some track times and figures because the video isn't changing my mind. Sure, imports like the NSX and Supra are good, but the Viper is by no means an over-priced piece of junk.

well how much MORE does the mustang cost then the civic, you should say throw equal amount of money at both cars, and even in your situation the civic would still win, unless it was a drag race at which point the victor would be any idiot brave or stupid enough to strap a rocket to a skateboard

anything with something mildly resembling a corner and the civic would win

and imports (japan) offers the easiest platform to customize and best performance per dollar then any american counterpart (new cars), sure you could get a used nova, transam, mustang, ect. for cheaps and use what you could have used to get a new civic to repair and refinish it which would be faster, but you'll still end up with an old car with ancient suspension

Quiggs
05-03-2005, 07:34 PM
sure you could get a used nova, transam, mustang, ect. for cheaps and use what you could have used to get a new civic to repair and refinish it which would be faster, but you'll still end up with an old car with ancient suspension
Yes, because no one, ever, has made an aftermarket suspension for any American made car. http://bill.cs-servers.com/Index/Adam/Funny/jerkit.gif

Niko_Fx
05-03-2005, 07:36 PM
ok, ill help settle this, they both suck ass, you want a car that is fast and handles well you need an english (noble, ultimat, lotus) german (any porsche, bmw m series, mercedes slk55, audi rs6 or rs4) or italian (any lamborghini, zonda, ferrari, etc.)

the only good imports are evos and wrx sti's, and the tommy kaira ZZII which isnt even a production model, so

1st off since you are in the US Merc, Audi, BMW and Porsche ARE "Imports"

2nd If you think that an EVO and an STI are the only good Japanese cars then you don't know much about Japanese cars pal.

3rd Saying that both American and Japanese cars suck is total ignorance.

4th Your European examples are cars $50K+

5th You didn't help to settle anything, you just threw more wood into the fire.

Quiggs
05-03-2005, 07:38 PM
In before the http://bill.cs-servers.com/Index/Adam/Funny/lockd.gif (Yes, it's back...)

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 07:39 PM
and imports (japan) offers the easiest platform to customize and best performance per dollar then any american counterpart (new cars), sure you could get a used nova, transam, mustang, ect. for cheaps and use what you could have used to get a new civic to repair and refinish it which would be faster, but you'll still end up with an old car with ancient suspension

I dunno about best performance per dollar......I was just looking at Modern Day Muscle Car's, they sell engines for the C5, that for $20,000 turns a C5 into a 1300-1400 horsepower monster, and it doesn't really affect the balance in a noticeable way. Just buy a used C5, for like $30,000, put the other $20,000 in, and wham, you have a car that puts over 1000 horsepower to the floor for $50,000, and the C5's great handling. The Z1100 package they sell for the C5 creates 1100 horsepower (but it is alot more then just the engine, so it costs waaaaay more), and it does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 9.2. It may just be one company.......but $50,000 for a C5 that can do better in the straightline then the Z1100, and retains the C5's handling.......? Sounds pretty damn good to me.

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 07:41 PM
In before the http://bill.cs-servers.com/Index/Adam/Funny/lockd.gif (Yes, it's back...)

I actually do have to agree with you. This probably should be stopped before it goes a bit too far. To aid in this, the above post is my last in Japanese vs. Domestic. Final. End. I have realized that, yeah, this is turning into one of "those threads", just in time.

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-03-2005, 07:46 PM
American and Japanese for the $30,000 and under. But after that, you get to English territory ($40,000-$75,000), and how could you forget the Atom's? ;) Germany comes next ($80,000-$120,000), largely with things like M3 CSL's, all the way through to Carrera's. Then.......comes a price range where no one dominates really, until you get to Italy's expensive but fast supercars.

a lancer evolution MR (japanese or basic euro spec) would take on any and all of those cars short of the track cars and top spec 911s
take a look at the BMI times for the tsukuba cirquit, they are a 3rd party organization and test a whole buncha cars (mostly high performance european exotics and domestic jdm cars both stock and modified)

lancer evolution VIII RS beat the r34 by .4 seconds, the mclaren f1 by .5, the regular F355 by 1.5 secs
it was only .4 seconds from the time set by the ferrari F40, and this is on the stock tyres

http://www.tuningpt.com/store/tsukuba.htm

these results are kind of biased as tsukuba is very different from what an average european track would be like

tsukuba's corners are much slower when compared to the european style tracks

this is where the mclaren lost out since it's not a very good handling car to start off and with the loss of downforce would be really hard to keep fast, also it's brakes are a decade older then the VIII's

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-03-2005, 07:49 PM
I dunno about best performance per dollar......I was just looking at Modern Day Muscle Car's, they sell engines for the C5, that for $20,000 turns a C5 into a 1300-1400 horsepower monster, and it doesn't really affect the balance in a noticeable way. Just buy a used C5, for like $30,000, put the other $20,000 in, and wham, you have a car that puts over 1000 horsepower to the floor for $50,000, and the C5's great handling. The Z1100 package they sell for the C5 creates 1100 horsepower (but it is alot more then just the engine, so it costs waaaaay more), and it does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 9.2. It may just be one company.......but $50,000 for a C5 that can do better in the straightline then the Z1100, and retains the C5's handling.......? Sounds pretty damn good to me.

with 1300-1400 hp (which i seriously doubt is the true figure, 600-700 most likely) you'll need new brakes, new suspension, new transmission, new tyres
seriously strengthened chassis and a roll bar if you want to live, all these cost money

for a crappy analogy go play gt4 or gt3 and upgrade ONLY the engine, without touching the other areas, the car will handle be nervous and hard to drive

in real life this effect would be much more then in game

CdocZ
05-03-2005, 07:50 PM
with 1300-1400 hp (which i seriously doubt is the true figure, 600-700 most likely) you'll need new brakes, new suspension, new transmission, new tyres
seriously strengthened chassis and a roll bar if you want to live, all these cost money

for a crappy analogy go play gt4 or gt3 and upgrade ONLY the engine, without touching the other areas, the car will handle be nervous and hard to drive

in real life this effect would be much more then in game

I never said you wouldn't have to upgrade anything else. That's still a crapload of horsepower for your buck. But, as I said, I am done. No more.

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-03-2005, 07:55 PM
a simple calculation yields that to produce 1000 horsepower at around 25% efficiency you need 16 litres of engine at around 6000 rpm, that or 8 litres of engine with 1 bar boost or 4 litres with 3 bar boost ect...

and given the inefficiency of most american engines id have to say those figures u provided are highly inaccurate/overrated

f1 engines can produce so much horsepower from just 3L because compared with normal road engines they are more efficient (in changing chemical energy to mechanical, not fuel efficiency) and rev much higher

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-03-2005, 07:56 PM
but by not saying you'd need to upgrade anything else you imply that you can just leave it at that a 50 grand 1000hp machine, i can throw 10 grand into a civic and make it corner at 2-3 gs but without changing the engine ill still have crap ass acceleration

motorsportnerd
05-03-2005, 08:29 PM
What about that Pontiac GTO with 1,100 horsepower, from "Modern Day Muscle Cars"? That GTo will tear a Supra apart, and it only costs about $60,000 including the car.
Once again, as Rockefella pointed out............at least state some track times to help your argument, because right now, you really do not have one.


Since FPV hasn't replied to this thread, thought I'd point out that if you're referring to the 2004/5 Pontiac GTO, then that, too, is an import - from Australia.

Quiggs
05-03-2005, 08:36 PM
This whole domestic/import arguement is stupid with how globalized car companies are anymore. GM builds cars in Canada- does that make them less American? Toyota builds cars in Indiana- does that make them less Japanese? VW builds cars in Mexico- are they less German?

Where's my bang-head icon when I need it...

AbsolutePower
05-04-2005, 07:03 AM
Since FPV hasn't replied to this thread, thought I'd point out that if you're referring to the 2004/5 Pontiac GTO, then that, too, is an import - from Australia.

Yeah and Hondas are built in Canada...so what's your point?

CdocZ
05-04-2005, 09:22 AM
Yeah, that's true. The Pontiac GTO might be of Australian inspiration, but 1) don't practically all Australian cars use American chassis's and engines, and other parts? and 2) Australian cars are often basically American 60's muscle cars with a modern body design.

Not exactly far off the mark, now, is it?

motorsportnerd
05-04-2005, 08:36 PM
I was splitting hairs a little. Yes the GTO does use Chev engines (built in Canada), but since it is manufacturered in Australia to something like 80% Australian content, then "technically" it is an import from Australia. It certainly isn't built in the US. And it is a little wide of the mark to say that Australian cars are "basically American 60's muscle cars with a modern body design". There is no US components except the (Canadian built) engine in the GTO. The floor plan is actually based on a German 1980s Opel Omega - continuously updated since then. Not exactly current day cutting edge, but a bit more modern than a 1960s US muscle car. It might be more accurate to say "inspired by 1960s US muscle cars".
The main reason I brought it up (other than to split hairs) is to point out that the import/domestic debate is not so straight forward in an era of globalisation.
You certainly cannot consider a car manufacturered in Australia that is based on an 80s Opel platform, uses a Canadian assembled engine and has about 80% Australian content as a US domestic car. Any more than an Acura, Infiniti or a BMW built in the US can be called an "import" car. Globalisation rules out the simple "import"/"domestic" divide.

KnifeEdge_2K1
05-04-2005, 08:57 PM
where it's built i dont care about, who it was designed by i do, the gto is just a holden monaro rebadged but since holden is a subsidiary of GM its kinda a big circle when you think about it

the seat leon is based on the golf, the smart car is based on the colt

the chrysler 300m is an old e class

the crossfire is an old slk

it keeps going and going

that new saab is an impreza

bla bla bla

hmm... i had a point when i started this but i kinda forgot ... oh well

motorsportnerd
05-04-2005, 09:12 PM
Which kind of proves the point about the blurring of domestic/import lines.

fpv_gtho
05-04-2005, 09:26 PM
Yeah, that's true. The Pontiac GTO might be of Australian inspiration, but 1) don't practically all Australian cars use American chassis's and engines, and other parts? and 2) Australian cars are often basically American 60's muscle cars with a modern body design.

Not exactly far off the mark, now, is it?

Way to toot your country's horn :rolleyes:

Your source of info was what now? Its painful how far off the mark you are on that one.

Rockefella
05-05-2005, 06:39 AM
Way to toot your country's horn :rolleyes:

Your source of info was what now? Its painful how far off the mark you are on that one.
Relax, yes.. calm down, thats good. ;)